It started with my brother's overdose

Well, hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified, the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Well, we all know that loss brings change. And most often the change is hard. It's difficult to navigate the new way forward when what we used to have is no longer there. But as time goes by many of us are able to find goodness and beauty in the aftermath of our losses. And there are lessons that we've learned that we can share with others that we can only learn through adversity. My guest today experienced the loss of his brother, and then later his father. And today we'll talk about the changes in his life that came as a result, as well as the lessons he learned in the midst of his trials. He is the author of several best selling books, a conference speaker, former school teacher and army officer, a husband and father of nine children. He earned a Master of Arts and Education from Chapman University, and a master's in religion and biblical studies from Liberty University, and now serves as the teaching pastor at Woodland Christian Church in Washington State. His name is Scott LaPierre, and it is my great pleasure to have him on the show today. Welcome to Qualified Scott.

Thanks, Michelle. Really glad to be here with you and your listeners.

Wonderful. Well, Scott, you have accomplished so much in your life and your daily schedules filled with writing, speaking and interviews like this one. But before we talk about your life now, let's talk about your life. Then. You said one of the biggest losses you had to endure was when your brother passed away. Can you tell us about your life around that time, and what it was like to get that tragic news?

Sure, it was just my brother and I growing up, we grew up with hardwork and parents that loved us. I stayed away from drugs and alcohol but almost just for prideful reasons I wanted to succeed in school and sports. And it wasn't like I had a real moral conviction about what I was doing living with a girl in college or after college. And so my life it was just pretty much a worldly one. I woke up and thought about myself and what I wanted. And my brother started kind of getting into partying and drinking when we were in high school, which is kind of shocking to us. Because we we both been pretty similar focusing on academics and athletics. And then I went to college, I was in ROTC to become an officer in the military. And my brother ended up enlisting in the military. And during that time, he'd become addicted to pills, pain pills, and they create a pretty strong addiction. And he couldn't get the pills like he could before. And he started breaking into people's houses. And that was really shocking for us, because we grew up in what I consider a pretty moral family. And I remember going to visit Jason, with my parents at the jail and talking to him through the glass and he could barely look at us. He was just he was so ashamed. And not long after that. I got a call from my father who never calls me he's a much, much quieter individual. And he told me that Jason had overdosed and died.

I'm so sorry about that, Scott. And I know that was devastating for you. So at the time of Jason's passing, you were an elementary school teacher. And you said some of your colleagues played a role in the changes that were coming in your life.

So when when my brother died, I was I was very depressed. And I actually got the phone call that my brother died on a Wednesday night, when my dad called me my parents drove down to see me and I stayed home on Thursday with them at my apartment. And it was probably the worst day of my life. And I said, I can't do this. Again. It's a Friday, I was back in my classroom, I needed something to drown out, kind of the grief I was experiencing and I threw myself into my work. And that's was a nice outlet. Probably not a healthy one but nice outlet for me to just be in the classroom with my students. The principal said, Hey, you can take off months, you know, if you need to, we'll get we'll get a long term sub in here. But I just thought I can't stay home. I gotta be in here. And back to work. And partly to encourage my parents, I said that I would go to this church to talk to this pastor, because I was teaching with a handful of Christians who had regularly invited me to their church and I never went. And I'd kind of say, okay, you know, keep asking me at some point, I'll probably go with you. And so then when Jason died, this teacher who'd become a good friend of mine, and who told me that he had been praying for me, said, Hey, look, you know, we all go to the same church, the the teachers who are Christians around me, and you really should come to the church just to talk to the pastor because he lost his brother, when he was about your age. And so I went and you know, Michelle, I didn't go to become a Christian or anything along those lines I just went. And part of it again was I thought my parents would be encouraged to know that I was trying to get some help, because they knew I was struggling. And so then, interestingly, I didn't even get to talk to the pastor that Sunday about my brother, and I was already looking forward to coming back the following Sunday. And I saw how God did all that through my brother's death. But when he first died, it was just an incredibly depressing, confusing, shocking, painful season, not understanding why I had a lot of people that came to me to try to tell me cliches, very unhelpful things. But as actually that pastor, his daughter, who I talked with, came to me and said, one of the most encouraging things, which was, I don't know why this happened. But I do know that God is sovereign, that was a gesture, I made this nice letter, one to bring our family a meal. And she said, the opposite of everyone else. She said, I can't tell you why this happened. But I can tell you that God is good. And he is sovereign over what takes place in our lives, even if it doesn't, you know, look or feel that way at this moment.

So that was really a turning point for you. You started out just enjoying the church services and the kindness of the people you were surrounded by. But then you became a Christian, and more changes were on the way, what happened next?

the really kind of shocking thing to me was after I became a Christian, you know, you just heard me kind of express how much I loved teaching elementary school, my passion for teaching started decreasing. And I found my heart for ministry increasing. And so I really found God doing something dramatic in my life, I thought I'd spend the rest of my life teaching and coaching. I loved it. I mean, I'm in there on the weekends, and my classroom, I'm in there in the evenings, you know, maybe I'm not much of a life at that time wasn't married. And so I, I thought, wow, this is incredible. And now, but there came this time where it's kind of like, I don't want to tell people to students open their math books, I want to tell people to open their Bibles. You know, I really wanted to be in ministry. And so my point is, that was one of the other good things that God did from this as he changed my passions. And he started redirecting my life following my brother's passing.

So a lot more change takes place in your life now that you're in ministry. And those changes, were starting to impact the people around you, especially your parents. Can you talk about that?

So after my brother passed, it was just my parents and I, they were not they were not particularly receptive to Christianity, because I did a terrible job. I'm not exaggerating. I did someone said, I was like a bull in a china shop, basically. So there's a lot of good ways I could have went about sharing the gospel. My parents, and I chose bad ways. But God worked through my my poor evangelism, they became Christians. And then when I married Katie, we started having children, my parents moved to be by us in California, my wife and I grew up together in Northern California. And so my parents were living by us. And then when I came up to Washington, to take that teaching pastor position in 2010, my parents followed us up here. We learned my dad had Alzheimer's about that time. And then we were really glad to have my parents nearby, so we could be available to them.

So your dad's Alzheimer's was taking a real toll on him and on your mother. And then things took a turn for the worse. Can you talk about that Sunday evening, and then some of the positive things that you were able to focus on, even in the midst of adversity?

that we were watching the effect Alzheimer's was having on him as he was, you know, forgetting things be more confused, not talking as much. And so there was one Sunday night when my mother called me terrified, panicking. And they only live two houses down from us. And I'd made trips down there different times when dad was upset or emotional or crying, you know, frequently I bring my children and, and they had a very positive effect on his depression or discouragement. You know, just seeing you could watch, even when he wasn't talking much, you could see him visually change when he saw my children, and they drawn pictures and go over and give him give him a hug and a kiss and things like that. Just children can have a wonderful effect on people. But this one Sunday night, mom calls and I thought either dad wandered off, and she couldn't find him or maybe he got upset or who knows what it is. So I raced down to the house, and my associate pastor happened to be with me. And dad was lying on the floor, and he wasn't responding. And he had choked on some food. And we began delivering CPR to him, we were alternating back and forth while the ambulance was coming. And we weren't able to save him. And, you know, the ambulance came, and they took over and then worked on him for about an hour and a half. And we thought we had probably, I don't know, I mean, it's, I guess, six months a year, maybe two years left with him. So I didn't expect to lose them that that suddenly and under those conditions. And so that was hard to go home and tell my children that their grandfather wasn't was no longer with us because they saw him I mean, almost every day and and they thought they had a lot of time left with him. And so to deliver that news, and then we started working on, you know, the funeral arrangements and I was preparing my eulogy for and in preparing that message saw the good that God did. Through that, which I wasn't able to see that night, the first night I didn't sleep and I just can't understand why. But the last chapter for people with Alzheimer's or dementia can be a very dark discouraging season. And we believe that God allowed my dad to pass with dignity. And those remaining months or however much time he had left, what could have been very difficult on my mom. And there's, it's kind of a nice way you want to remember someone. And then there's also kind of a way you hope not to remember someone. And so my children are able to remember my father very wonderfully.

Yes, sudden and unexpected death is so hard because we often feel like we didn't get a chance to say goodbye. Did you feel like you said all the things you wanted to say to your father prior to his passing?

So I was far from a perfect Son, I can have plenty of regrets. But one regret I don't have to have is that I, I did tell my dad, I loved him. I told him that repeatedly. And there was this one night in particular, when my mother had a surgery and I had to stay with dad at the house, we're in the living room together, he starts to fall asleep. So I'm going to get him ready for bed and he goes in the bedroom, he's putting his pajamas on over his clothes is kind of confused and everything. So I help him get dressed correctly and get his pajamas on. And I lay him in bed. And he's just kind of looking up at me and I'm pulling the covers over him. And I just leaned down. I said, Dad, you know, I love you so much, you know that I love you. And, and he wasn't talking much. But I know he understood me. And that was a precious moment. Obviously reversal. You know, our children our parents tuck us in , but to be able to get older and then tuck my dad and and there were other times I looked at him, even when I thought he was confused, but I put my hands on his shoulders and I just look him straight in the face. And I'd say Dad, I love you very much, you know that I love you very much. My give him a hug kiss on the cheek. So I just encourage all your listeners, you know, if there's something you think you need to say to somebody, you know how much time you have left, go ahead and make sure that you that you say that.

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your father. And so thank you for sharing on such a deeply personal level about your relationship with him in his final moments. So at this point in your life, you are a full time teaching pastor. And you've also authored several books. I'd like to talk about one in particular since it addresses extreme adversity associated with a parent child relationship is called the father offers his son. And in it you talk about the parallels between the biblical story of Abraham and Isaac, and God, the Father and His Son, Jesus. Now, this story is intense, to say the least. Can you share with us some of the big takeaways from the book to help clarify the meaning, and also highlight the areas that might bring comfort to someone who's struggling with the loss of a loved one?

Yeah, and I think I might even share something someone shared with me that I think could be a very common view or understanding of Abraham and Isaac, that's actually wrong, that I hope this book would remedy. So I was at the dentist and my dentist is a Mormon. He's a wonderful guy. But he'd spent a lot more time reading the Book of Mormon and not reading the Bible. And I said, Well, what about reading the Bible? And he said, Well, I don't really want to. I'm not as big of a fan of the Bible, especially the Old Testament because of some of these bizarre stories. And I said, well, like like, what if you don't mind me asking? And he said, Well, you know, like, God tells Abraham to basically murder his son. And interestingly, I just published this. So I had copies of it in my car. And I told him, I said, you know, I actually just wrote a book on this. And he thought I was joking. I said, No, I'm, I'm serious, actually have the first few copies on my car, if I could get you a copy. And I said, if you read it, I'd be happy to to get it for you. And he said, You know, it's bizarre to me that God told a man to murder his son. And I said that that makes a lot of sense. But what actually is happening is God is prefiguring, through Isaac foreshadowing what he is going to do with his son 2000 years later, because God stopped Abraham, you know, Abraham raises a knife, God stops him. So it's evident God did not want Abraham to execute Isaac. So then it begs the question, Well, what did he want him to do if he didn't want him to kill him? He wanted to show through a type or shadow or prefigure what God would do with his son later, and help us understand what it was like for him as we put ourselves in Abraham's place and consider what it was like for Abraham to have to do that with Isaac. If you don't see Christ through Isaac, and you don't see God, if you don't see God the Father, if you're Abraham, and God the Son through Isaac, that is going to look like a horrendous account, and God is going to look wicked. Basically, there's no other way to say it, if you if a God commands someone to murder his child, but when you understand he wants to put in human terms what he was going to do later, because a very beautiful illustration of what took place with Christ. Now regarding loss, just the way God addresses this with Abraham, he says, Take your son, your only son, whom you love, I mean, it's a it's a parallel language to the New Testament and God has a son, his only son whom he loves. You can't I mean, I could talk All day I'll try to try not to but talk all day about types and shadows, especially with Abraham and Isaac. And so the whole point though, is your show deals with loss and pain. And God knows that God knows what it's like to lose someone to be separated from his son. That's when Jesus cried out on the cross and said, you know, why have you forsaken me? Not that he didn't literally know, but was fulfilling Psalm 22, that there was some separation, while Christ bore our sins from his father during those few hours on that cross. And so I hope it can be encouraging to all of your listeners as it is to me that when we experience loss, God knows what that's like. He knows what it's like to suffer. God became a man and the person of Jesus Christ was willing to go to the cross, in our place, dying for sinful people who were rejecting him calling out for his death had mistreated him rebelled against Him, I mean, Judas, one of the 12 disciples, he's what three and a half years is the one who betrays him. Um, so I love that story. So much. I mean, of all the books I could have written, I chose to write one just on the parallels between Abraham, Isaac and God, the Father and God the Son.

That's great. Thank you for that explanation. So Scott, I want to take advantage of your knowledge of Scripture when it comes to grief and loss. That story was a true test of faith. And it also is a test of faith when we lose someone we love. And I know many people who have actually really leaned into their relationship with God for comfort during these times, and yet others who have turned away and I think about that verse in First Thessalonians chapter four, where it says that we are not to grieve as those who have no hope. What does that mean?

Yeah, that's a great question. And so there's kind of, if I get a little momentum into answering this belief that if you're super spiritual, you're always joyful. You never grieve, you're, you're always happy and you never suffer. I mean, Jesus is a man of sorrows. Jesus did not walk around laughing and joking all the time. He grieved he had sorrow over Jerusalem when he looked and knew that they were going to be plundered by the Romans. Jesus had compassion on people grieved that people rejected Him or that people would spend an eternity in hell. And so if God can become a man in the person of Jesus Christ and experience grief or sorrow, then it is it's not only a moral, it's moral, it is moral or righteous are good because morality is defined by God Himself, right? How do we determine what is moral or immoral, by the nature and character of God for God to do something is to show the morality of it now without said that's why the Bible does not condemn grief. In fact, it actually says grieve, you agree that as human is natural to grieve, there's something wrong if you don't grieve, you're out. You wouldn't be human to not grieve. But we're told how to grieve. And we're told to grieve, but not as those who have no hope. And so who would be those who don't have hope those would be unbelievers. So he Paul had a specific person, it's versus audience for 13. The verse you're referencing, Ray says, Do not grieve as those who have no hope, well, who are those who have no hope? Those are unbelievers who do not have hope, and what hope in the resurrection hope in the next life. And so for those, they are in a hopeless state, they do need to come to faith in Christ to be born again, and then look forward to the resurrection. And hopefully seeing those loved ones again, who are believers. And so we do grieve, and we do experience the sorrow but all the while having hope that I will see my father again, I'd like to believe that my brother didn't have much when he died in that hotel room. And I didn't mention this yet. But he, a box of his belongings was sent back to us. And one of the possessions was a Gideons Bible. And he had signed scientists name in the back, where it says, if you've, you know, prayed this prayer and asked Jesus to be your savior, sign your name? Well, interestingly, my brother could have been the first believer in our family, he could have come to faith in Christ before before I did, though, I'd like to, it's in the Lord's hands. But I'd like to believe that I'll see my brother again, I'm definitely confident in my in my father's salvation. And so that's what it means it means to look for and that gives us a good reason to want to share the gospel with those people we love so that we would have that hope of seeing them again.

Absolutely. Well, Scott, your story of personal loss, and how it transformed your life as a powerful one. And so thank you for sharing not only the details of your journey, but also the biblical knowledge you gained over the years as you grew in your faith. So now, can you take just a moment and summarize the lessons you learned from your loss that might help someone who's listening today who needs hope?

Well, first, a powerful verse, which I believe will be familiar to many of your listeners as Romans 828, which is a promise that God will work things work all things not some things are small things or big things but all things together for good to those who love him and are called according to His purpose and and so when we're struggling like one woman who told me you know, I don't know why this happened. We don't get all the answers. We're forced at those times to rely on the promises in Scripture. So it's kind of like the book of Job. I mean, if I just have a little latitude here to explain something, the book of Job is a particularly interesting book because it's the book of suffering. But one of the main points is you don't get to find out why. Now we got to see behind the curtain, the conversation between God and the devil and why all of Job's suffering took place. Job did not see that. In fact, one of the one of the main points that most people don't want to talk about is that job, never got to find out why he suffered. He had a bunch of friends or a bunch three to four, three, and then a fourth friend, telling him only telling him a lie, they probably believed it, but it wasn't true that you know, bad things only happen to bad people. And then you can wonder, well, you know, why did why did Satan kill all of Job's family but leave his wife and when you see the way she spoke, you can see why Satan allowed her to live she said, Curse God and die Satan's never gonna Satan is never going to kill someone who's going to tell others Curse God and die. Right? He she's like his advocate, you know, so Satan allows her to live and so between her and Job's friends, he's getting this terrible counsel. And when God shows up, to finally give Job his audience and day in court that he wants. Instead of giving Job answers, he just unleashes 70 Something questions where Job begins to be humbled, beneath God's greatness, but he never gets to find out why on this side of heaven, and we typically don't either. And so that begs the question, well, then how do we navigate through these trials and suffering? Well, first, we are given many wonderful promises to encourage us during our suffering and trials. Romans 8:28, being one of the best ones that, you know, Michelle, to be candid with your listeners, one of the things I've noticed as a pastor is people tend to think that when we walk by faith, or when people walk by faith, that means going and being a missionary in a third world country, you know, living or very little money and possibly being pursued. walking by faith means looking at God's word and believing it when it doesn't make sense. walking by faith is not just for extreme Christians and persecuted countries, it's for every Christian to look at God's word and say, this might not make sense. In fact, I might even be tempted to disagree with this. But I am going to choose to obey this, I'm going to choose to believe this. Despite how I'm feeling, that's what walking by faith means. I believe what God says even if it doesn't make sense to me, or even if I disagree. And so one way we walk by faith is we look at Romans 8:28. And we say, I, God is working this together for good, even if I cannot see all of the good right now. And maybe I won't ever now in my situation with my brother. It took me years, but I finally was able to look back and said, well, not even years, but months, by God's grace, I was able to look back a few months later and see the good God brought from it. But not everyone gets to experience that on this side of him. And they might have to walk the rest of their life by faith, trusting God is bringing forth good from it. And then maybe when we get to heaven, we won't even care anymore about having those questions.

I'm thinking about that scripture in Hebrews 11, when it talks about the hall of faith and how they all died in faith, not having received the promises.

That's a that's a fantastic Yeah, and Hebrews 11, God's Hall of Faith, these people, and that's interesting people who I'm going to keep on talking about people who suffered, many of them suffered incredibly, on this side of heaven, and they were not able to see, they were longing for that city, we're referring to the heavenly city. And they were they were walking by faith living not by sight, looking forward to what a way to them without being able to lay hands on it in this life. And so that's that's one thing I would say that I learned is that part of walking by faith is trusting God's bringing forth good, we can't see. The second thing. And maybe this I'm sure this has come up many times on your show. I don't want to be too, too repetitive. But Scripture is overwhelmingly clear that trials and suffering are one of the primary tools God uses for our spiritual growth and maturity. We could wish it was another way we could all wish that we grew through blessing and goodness, and so forth. And we do get blessed God is good, and he does give us many wonderful gifts. How ever Scripture is clear that the most growth occurs through Charles and suffering James, one count of all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing the testing of your faith produces patients let patients have its perfect word that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. You know, when first Peter talks about the trial, our trial, our faith being tried and tested. And I think that's one of the things that offered to your listeners. We don't like trials, but we all want to know where saved. Well, when we go through trials and our faith is maintained, then it's shown to be something that has been tested and is genuine. So everyone should examine their faith. We should all administer tests to ourselves, is there fruit in our lives has our faith survived tests, as First Peter says that shows the genuineness or sincerity of it when you can go through a trowel and and not obey Job's wife and not curse God, which is how Job's faith is shown to be sincere. His wife says curse God, and it says Job never sinned with His lips, he never cursed God. He had questions. He was confused. He became a little proud at the end. But I there's a young mother in our church, who has three children. And she found out she had stage four colon cancer, I felt privileged to have some of our dear friends, some of our closest friends. And I have watched her faith, thrive through this very difficult trial. And that's evidence to me of the genuineness of it because who can't praise God and rejoice on the mountaintops. I mean, when life's going well, everyone loves the Lord. But when you're but that's not real evidence of salvation. I mean, it's like they put the microphone in the guy's face after he won the football game. They need to go interview the people that lost that football game. And so when we're in the valleys, that's when the genuineness of our faith is truly shown when we're suffering and we're able to bear up well, underneath the trials that we're experiencing is when the real some genuineness of our faith is demonstrated.

And I always say that when adversity comes, people either run to God or they run away from God, and believing can be hard when you see someone who's a person of faith, and they get hit with cancer, like the woman you spoke of. So what would you say to someone who hasn't really experienced adversity and loss in this life? And they're sort of opposed to talking about topics like this because it feels negative, and they want to keep more of a positive outlook.

Yeah, I think there's it's might sound like a little bit of a cliche, but I think there's a lot of truth in it that trials make you better or better. And in Scripture, there's at least one individual that we can see who became bitter by trials. So it's a guy named Asa. And the reason that I like to mention Asa is he was one of the best kings in the Old Testament, there's not really a whole lot, you know, we're gonna try to learn from Ahab or you know, a wicked king. But with Asa, he was one of Israel, Judas best kings, he was a godly man. But at the end of his life, he had turned from God and been rebuked by a prophet. He'd been attacked by an enemy nation. And instead of going to God for help, he ended up turning to another nation for help this prophet rebukes him. And I believe in this last ditch effort to reach a son bring him to repentance at the end of his life, God gave him a disease in his feet, it was probably gangrene, or gout or something. And it says, sadly, that he turned to the physicians and would not turn to God for help. So you say, Well, how was that really gracious, God was gracious because it was one more effort from God to turn Asa back to him. So when Aisa turned only to the physicians, he seemed bitter, resentful toward God, my suspicion. The Scripture doesn't say this. I mean, I've been a little speculative, but he'd served God faithfully, almost four decades. And he probably thought he didn't deserve something like this. And so in in kind of this resentment toward God, he looks away from God turns only to the doctors. In the end, the Scripture mentions that it says that he wouldn't turn to God for help. So he didn't become better. Through this trial, there's not always a guarantee that trials are going to that's why it says in James one, the verses I mentioned earlier, it says let trials, it's actually a verb, there's a submission of surrender, you know, like, you get the shot in the arm. And the doctor says, Don't Don't stiffen up, just stay loose. Yeah, you need to we need to say surrendered or submitted to the Lord, through those trials, if they're going to produce that sanctifying work in our lives. I'd say one other thing about trials, I've noticed people, oftentimes for lack of better words that are not prepared for them. And if I kind of use a sports analogy, like I used to play football, and there's kind of two ways to be tackled, you know, there's the attacker, you see, it's coming and you brace for it. And then there's the blind, you're blindsided. You run it down the field, everything looks good, you know, you're looking at the endzone and you think touch, you're waiting to celebrate your touchdown and someone just clobbered it, you know. And sometimes I feel like many Christians are blindsided by trials, because they're not ready. They're not built up for them. And so it is completely true that we're either in a trial, or we're heading toward one, because on this side of heaven, we're bound to

33, in the world, you will have suffering and tribulation. And so we need to be prepared for those trials. Well, how do we do that we should be in prayer, we should be in God's word. And we should be plugged into a local church. And so I have seen people go through a trial and then turn to God. But that's not the ideal way that's kind of preparing for a test the day of a test, or that's like preparing for the big game, the day of the big game. So I like to see people who are already built up spiritually speaking and are spiritually strong and prepared for that trial. So they can brace themselves. And the trout, they can be tackled by that trial, but still withstand it well. And that can only come from spending a good amount of time with other believers in fellowship and a local church and God's word and being built for just practicing the spiritual disciplines. And so I would just say to any of your listeners, if they're experiencing a trial, or when they experience a trial, look to the Lord, let that be a time that you turn to Him in prayer and prayer at praying. It's it's not fancy, it's a conversation. And maybe you've never been prayed before. Maybe this is the first time you've ever you've ever prayed and you already know what to do. Just ask all the questions you have about But what you're going through and what he wants you to learn from and what he wants to do through it and even ask, you know, why it's happening and help you to understand it as much as he'll graciously reveal to you. And I would strongly encourage people to turn to the Bible, because that's God's word to us on this side of heaven. And he does want to speak to us through it. It's called his word, because it's what he wants to say. And so, you know, go to the Bible, start to read it and believe that God wants to, to direct you and build you up through it, and especially when you're going through something as difficult, you know, as a trial or the loss of a loved one.

Yeah, and I think when we have a loss in our life, like a death of a loved one, actually makes us kind of ponder that, you know, Sean was only 17, when he passed away. And so his friends, and they were juniors in high school, had really never lost anyone before that most of them. And a lot of them did have questions at that time. Because, you know, where is Sean, that's, that's what it makes you think about

No, I was just reflecting on your son's passing. And I will just say that I might have a unique position in that I officiate funerals. I'm one of the people that people reach out to even people who've never been in a church, I'll get a phone call. And they'll say, you know, we don't go to your church, we don't go to church, and we're but we lost this person, we need to have a funeral. And I'm always thankful for those opportunities. Because a funeral is that one time when everyone is forced to look at something they hate, we will do our very best, we'll talk about anything and everything else. We will not talk about death, nobody wants to talk about death, we'll have conversations about some of the most awkward, difficult things and death will never come up, which is really ironic, considering it is one of the only realities of life that we will all die, we're not all going to experience. You know, a lot of people experience marriage, children, we're not. But we know we're all going to experience death, but nobody wants to talk about it. But a funeral is where death is like, put front and center, everyone's looking at the coffin. Everyone is that's the one time everyone is thinking that no one wants think about when their life's gonna come to an end. But that's the one time everyone thinks about when their life is going to come to an end. And if there's gonna be a funeral for them. And so it's a really great time to encourage people to think about what's going to be after that. My death is approaching. I don't like to think about it, but it is every day that goes by I'm getting closer to it. And so what does that mean? How should I live as a result? What is, you know, is there a God that created me that wants something from me with the life that he's given me?

Yeah, deep and important things to ponder? Scott, I just want to thank you so much for agreeing to come on the podcast and talk with me today. It's been such a pleasure talking with you and learning from you. And so before we go, can you just tell people where they can find you on the web to learn more?

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Michelle, if people want to learn more about me, or my books or anything, they can go to my website, Scott lapierre.org, just my name, you'll have it in the in the show notes and have a free gift for your listeners. It's a little marriage book I wrote. It's called Seven biblical insights for marriage. And it's a short read, you know, people don't have to pick up a novel and they can get that for free from my website. And also, you know, if anyone has any questions, or I can pray for them in any way, they can reach out to me through the contact page on my website, so that I appreciate what you're doing. Michelle, I appreciate you're trying to encourage people to trials are such a reality. I'm glad there's, there's someone like you out there with this podcast trying to help people navigate through loss. So thank you for what you're doing.

Thanks again, Scott. So for those of you listening, I hope you were encouraged by Scott's words today. He understands the pain of loss, but also the growth that can occur in the midst of trials. None of us wants to go through the hard times, or even think about the worst happening to us. But in this life, we need to realize that loss will come and we need to be prepared when it does. It is my prayer that you will turn to God in your sorrow and allow him to provide the comfort that only he can. And remember that one day, you'll be able to help someone else with the lessons that you learned from your loss. Thanks for listening