Living with intention after losing my sister

Hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified, the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Where do you turn when you're struggling in your grief? Who can you talk to who understands, who can offer resources and support? And who really knows what grief feels like? Well, my guest today found herself asking those very questions. When someone near and dear to her, her older sister passed away suddenly. She began seeing therapists and trying out support groups, but never quite felt like she was getting what she needed. Then a friend suggested she hire a grief coach, and suddenly the healing began. Her experience was so beneficial to her that she decided to pursue further education with the International Coaching Federation, and ultimately became a certified grief coach. She's passionate about helping others. And her mission is to support people moving through their grief, to find peace, using practical tools, exercises and resources. In addition to her ICF credentials, she holds a master's degree in communications, making her well qualified to engage in authentic conversations with her clients. Her name is Nesreen Ahmed, and it's my privilege to have her as my guest on the show today. Welcome to Qualified Nesreen.

Thank you, Michelle, thank you so much for having me today.

Of course. Well, to get started, I want to talk to you a little bit about the grief you experienced. One of your two older sisters passed away suddenly back in 2013. Tell us her name a little bit about the kind of person she was about your relationship with her and also the circumstances surrounding her passing.

My sister's name was Naveen. And forgive me if I get a little emotional because the date of her death is actually coming up the anniversaries coming up in just over a week. She was so smart, and so funny and witty, and sarcastic and fun. And deeply sensitive. And I miss her.

I'm so sorry to hear that Nesreen

I literally was at work on a Saturday afternoon, I got a phone call. So I at that point, I had been living in San Francisco for a few years. And she was out on tour with a show. And they were in San Francisco, the current base there for a month or two. And she passed away unexpectedly in the hotel room. And it was her best friend, another co worker of hers on the tour that noticed that like, hey, where is she? And they finally were able to get into the room and and found her.

I'm so very sorry to hear that Nesreen. It sounds like she was a great sister and friend. And you told me that she was your hero. So I know her passing had a great impact on you. Can you talk about all the ways your life was changed moving forward?

In every possible way, every possible way. Like I felt like my core changed. Do you mean like who I was, what I thought about and what I wanted and what how I responded and how I acted and everything felt like it changed. You know, and it was it was a process. I mean, definitely the the initial trauma was just that, you know, and it was incredibly hard to try to wrap my head around what was happening, you know, in the fact that I would never talk to her again. And the fact that I had not responded to her last text message and and into there are so many things that I still want to say to her and do with her. And you know, so it was desperately challenged just to kind of get through the day and try to process what was happening and then moving forward. It was like, Okay, well, I know, I don't want to stay at San Francisco longer, like I know want to go back to New York because that's where, you know, I spent over 10 years in New York before I went to San Francisco and I felt like I had a much stronger you know, network and had worked there that I could just kind of fall back into and a family is on the east coast. So it all made sense to go back to New York but but then it was like then what you know, here I am in New York, I have an apartment now and I have work but my life is still in shambles. I'm you know, I'm still in shambles. And so it was very much trying to figure out who am I now? What do I want? What's important, who's important, you know, and some of those things were very obvious. Like, I think when you lose somebody, you get a lot of clarity in terms of what is important to you and shows important those core people that you have a need in your life. But a lot of bigger questions of like, you know, what do I want from my life and kind of person? Do I want to be, you know, how can I be more compassionate? How can I be more thoughtful, more grateful? How can I live with more intention? Those are all things that I, I was battling, and I'm really trying to answer, in a way for the first time in my life. Yeah,

I absolutely agree with you about how we see things with a new clarity after losing someone dear to us. And I love how you talked about considering all the ways you could be more compassionate, thoughtful, grateful, and intentional. loss will make us take stock of our lives and weed out the unnecessary and the unimportant. I felt that way after losing my son, Sean. So can you talk about how you managed your grief immediately following her passing? Did you see a counselor?

So actually, I went to a therapist, everybody was like, You should be therapy, you should go to therapy. And I was like, okay, yeah, I should hit high green. But what I didn't know at the time was they actually probably would have benefited more from my counselor, because I had been in therapy before and and the person that I ended up seeing was not trained in grief. You know, not all, not all therapists are trained in grief, I didn't realize that at the time. And so I went in every week, and I talked about my grief, but I left feeling pretty much the same, you know, there wasn't any, was it? I think she could really do for me, you know, in terms of helping the process, you know, whether it's taxable tools, or, or ideas and tips, resources, anything like that I wasn't really getting very much, she was a wonderful therapist, but just not for what I needed. You know, okay. And I also went to support groups. It took a while, it took a while for me to do anything, you know, in the beginning, especially, but I went to a support group specifically for sibling loss. And it was every other week, and I remember going one week, and there was somebody in the group that asked the counselor, you know, how long is too long to be in this group? How long before we should we should get worried or we should think about moving on or, and the counselor said to yours, oh, if you, if you, if you're here every other week for two years, and you still aren't ready to move on? Then we should talk about what's next, you know, what's going on? And that was the thing that had me freak out. That was a thing that hadn't been like, No, I can't, I can't, I can't continue to come here and be in this really heightened state of grief for the next two years. Like, I couldn't imagine being able to do that, you know, and sustain that. And that's when I really was like, I gotta figure something else out, I gotta find somebody else to work with, I got to do something for myself, because I knew that, like, two years was way too much time. For me. And especially when you lose somebody, suddenly, he starts to question your own mortality. You know, you're like, I remember for the first two weeks after she passed away, literally every day I woke up, and I was surprised that I was still alive. You know, and that's not something that people normally experience, right? Like, and so I really had this sense of urgency. When it came to like dealing with my grief, I needed something that was going to be more helpful and more immediate, to help me kind of start to climb out of the hole. So at that point, I was also already in training to be a life and business coach. And in that program, had started talking about grief coaching. And I had never heard of it before. And I was like, I'm so curious about this, you know, and I would like to know more, because I know that coaching is about moving forward, it is about, you know, reaching goals. And I was like, I have a very big goal of dealing my youth. And I would like to address that with somebody, you know, how do I how do I make that happen? Yeah, so she introduced me to the grief coach, and again, it took a while, but I finally did call her and I'm so glad that I did.

You know, I completely understand that sense of urgency you described. And I can relate to the point you made about questioning your own mortality. When we lose someone, suddenly, there can be real anxiety that follows about just how anything can happen at any time. And if we don't talk to someone about those feelings and work them out, they can be destructive. So you began meeting with the grief coach and talking through your grief. Tell us more about those sessions, how you felt about them and how long the process took for you.

You know, it wasn't very long. So she works. She and now I work with people through a method called The Grief Recovery method. that. And that is typically an eight session process. And there's reading involved, and there's writing involved, and I obviously speak about it with the coach. And that, for me felt like, it gave me something to do with my grief. You know what I mean? So often, we just sort of just sitting there, like, I have so many memories of just sort of staring off into space, you know, my mind was either completely blank, or like running, running, running. And then I would just go and talk in therapy, and then go home. And that would kind of be the end of it. Right. And with this process, I felt like I had something to do. You know, I had to read a little bit, I had to learn something, I had to write something I had to, you know, really kind of process and work through all those things. I felt unfinished. And that felt so it spoke to me. Yeah, it felt like it was more proactive. Felt like it was more. Yeah, it just gave me something to do. It

sounds like a great approach. I like the idea of having structured reading and writing assignments, in addition to the talk therapy, that's good. So tell us how that experience prompted you to start the accreditation process to become a grief coach?

Well, honestly, you know, it was it was a very difficult but also very easy decision to make the release of I felt after working with my coach keys that I felt, you know, in saying, okay, like, this happened, of course, I would never want this to happen. But now that it's happened, and I feel like I have worked through a lot of the things that happened in my relationship with my sister, you know, I feel more at peace. I never imagined that could happen. I honestly never imagined that I could say it's okay. Right. And the fact that I could, was that alone was what inspired me to go into grief coaching, because I wanted to give that to other people I knew so many other people who've gone through loss, and who could never say something like that could never feel that way. You know, they were either repressing their grief, or they were, you know, in therapy or sport groups like me week after week after week, you know, and I, I know, there's just so much suffering in the world. And I was like, you know, the fact that I can feel this way. It's, to me a miracle, frankly, you know, and I want to be able to give that to others, you know, and so, so that was the easy part. The hard part was then being like, Okay, I'm actually gonna go and I'm gonna get, you know, trained, and I'm gonna go get certified, I'm gonna go start doing the work and actually work with people. And that, you know, all of that was scary for different reasons, you know, especially the working with people in the beginning I love it's like, you know, it's just, am I qualified? Am I qualified enough in all the impostor syndrome in the questions, and really just finally learning how to trust the process and trust the person in front of me and trust myself? You know, it comes in time. It comes in time. But yeah, it was definitely daunting in the beginning.

Yeah, well, I think it's great that you decided to do it, because your own personal experience with grief is so valuable to others, in addition to the education you received, Have there ever been times when you're coaching someone, or their situation reminds you of your own loss? And how difficult is that for you?

Oh, my gosh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, I mean, again, like I do feel very much at peace with my sister, but certainly, there's so much, you know, heartbreak in what people are cheering and, you know, some of the tragedies they've been through, it breaks your heart, it breaks your heart, you know, it's not unusual to see me tearing up, you know, with a client from time to time. So yeah, it's intense. It is it's, it's not something I think everybody should do, or couldn't do. And certainly a lot of people don't want to do

Yeah, sounds like a calling, And can you also talk about the differences between counseling or therapy and coaching to help us understand what might be best for the stage of grief we're experiencing?

You have the option of going in to see a therapist, a counselor or coach, I always recommend if you're grieving to find a therapist who does deal with grief, who is experienced and trained in grief. But more often than not, if you're needing to see a therapist, because you're grieving, you might be experiencing complicated grief, where it's, it's gotten to the point where it's really interrupting your daily routine, it's hard to get through the day, you can't focus on work, maybe you can't really focus with your kids. Or if you had a complicated relationship with your lost loved one. If your grief is bringing up a lot of other unresolved grief, that would be a good time to go to see a therapist. The counselor I usually recommend typically, you know, soon after the last, you know, within for six, six months to a year after the loss, that's when a counselor would be really helpful because they can give you some really practical tools and resources and help you process that loss right and help you kind of learn had to move through your grief while you're also living your life and through your, your day. And then coaching. You know, coaching is really, most people, I coach, I'll say have gone to counseling or therapy, they've gone to support groups, but they didn't get quite what they needed. And so they definitely want to work through their grief, they want that structure that you've mentioned earlier, and they want to do things, right, they don't want to just come and talk and kind of go home, they really want to work towards something. And so a lot of people I work with, have done some of the grief work already. And so we will work through the rest of their grief. And then also look at what's next, you know, do they? Do they want to continue in their chosen career? Do they want to? Are they in a relationship that's not working? Are they not in a relationship but want to be in relationship? Do they want to overhaul their whole life, you know, really what's next and, and finding that, that thing that will help make them more satisfied, you know, so that's a lot of the work that I do as a coach. So that would be a good time, if you're really kind of, okay, I've done enough grief work, and now I'm looking towards what's next, that would be a good time to see a coach.

So now that you've been doing this for more than six years, can you talk about one of the greatest outcomes you've seen with a client that sort of affirmed your decision to keep coaching?

a lot of clients the relief or the outcome is the relief should say, the outcome is the peace. You know, like, I worked with a woman who had lost her mother, her husband and her son, all within the span of about four years. And we work together and ultimately, you know, the focus that that she chose was to work on relationship with her son. And there was still questions in terms of, you know, what happened to him, his last few hours, how he died, you know, so there's a lot of unknown, he was an adult, he had children, you know, and a spouse and so there was a lot of tragedy, you know, mixed into his his passing. And she told me, you know, that she didn't ever expect to get over it. She's like, you don't get over the loss of a child, you just don't, you know, and I won't say that she, at the end said, I'm over it, you know, certainly not. But she did remark at how unexpectedly she felt and how she's like, I didn't believe this would work. I didn't believe it was possible to feel okay. You know, and to be to be okay, you know, and that the weight that she said that she had been kind of living under was was lifted. Yeah. And so that's, you know, that to me, like, you know, I always get chills when I when I hear things like that and think about things like that, because that's really the best that I feel like I can offer. Yeah, yeah, sense of peace and the feeling of being okay. And, and having that burden lifted. You know, but I have a lot of clients that I've worked with that, you know, we might start in grief. And then we we switch to more general life coaching, because now it's like, what do I do now? You know, where do I go? Do I want to stay forever? I the client actually does talk to you earlier today. And she's like, I don't think I want to stay in my career anymore. But what does that mean? And where do I go from here? You know, and so, I do have a number of clients who've made some really beautiful shifts in their lives. And I have a client, you know, who always wanted little receipts should review receipts, I have another client who wants to start a business, she started a business, you know, so there's wonderful outcomes, you know, but I think to me, the best outcome is just hearing somebody say how muchbetter they feel?

Well, that is huge. Having lost a child myself, I can attest to what your client said, it's not something you ever get over. But to feel good again, to enjoy life, again, is such a step forward. So thank you for doing what you're doing. That's awesome. So based on what you have learned, can you share with us one or two things that you think are critical to living life again, after the loss of a loved one?

Yes, first, definitely support, support, support support, I'm a huge advocate of getting unreasonable amounts of support while you're grieving. Yeah, you know, have a therapist, have a counselor, have a coach, have friends, have family have support groups have whatever you need pastors, you know, ever you need, whoever you need, as much as you need, get support. You know, I think that it's, oh, it's heartbreaking to see how many people isolate during grief and how we feel like we have to because people either say that say the wrong things or do the wrong things. So they assume we should be okay by now or they're judging how we're going through our grief and, you know, it feels very unsafe. Right. It just feels very unsafe to be around people. The problem with that is, we don't heal in isolation. Right? You know, we heal Together We Heal with people we heal and community, we heal from being heard and seen and witnessed and validated. And we need that, especially when we're grieving. You know, every human needs that but especially when we're grieving. And so I think support would be the absolute number one thing in order to come back, you know, from the grief and to be able to live and live fully hope, just hope that that you can actually learn to integrate this and learn to live with this and be able to move forward. You know, I know a lot of people who have gone through loss and they lose that hope, and have lost it permanently. Yes, yeah. I think that's where that's where the decline happens. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. The physical, the health and mental. And there's there, it's sort of a decline that, that doesn't really end for people when they've lost that hope, Link. Yeah. And I think I think the last one is just like that, kind of along the same lines, but like, an inner strength. And that could be, you know, some people talk about a higher power in some people talking about just within themselves, but something that kind of pulls you up and pulls you forward.

So support and hope I could not agree more. There's this quote, I've heard so many times, man can live about 40 days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope. And I love that because I believe having faith and hope are so important when we're grieving. So do you believe that having faith in God is a key component to overcoming the devastation of loss? And how have you seen that lived out in the lives of your clients? Or, or even yourself with the loss of your sister?

Well, you know, I have so many different, I have so many different people who I work with, who move away from religion or move away from their face while they're grieving. You know, they get angry at God, I myself, also got angry, you know, very angry at God. And I was like, how, how can this happen? How could you let this happen? You know, and so I don't know that sake is is a requirement, right to heal. But I, I do know, a lot of people who live also found so much comfort in their faith in their in their traditions. You know, I know a lot of different I know, each religion has its own sort of tradition in terms of what to do when somebody passes away, how to bury them, when to bury them, the process of grieving and mourning, you know, and I love the fact that I think each major phase has some kind of coming together. Right? There's rituals or traditions, there's things that you do, because we need, like, we need that support, right? We need that community, we shouldn't be trying to do this alone. And so I love the fact that, you know, pretty much every every face that I know about has some version of coming together and mourning together, you know, celebrating and honoring that person. And I think that is so vital. You know, and I think it's so beautiful. And the fact that so many cultures will will have some kind of tradition, in order to honor that last person, I think is is wonderful, you know, but I don't know that. Faith is a is a necessary component. But I mean, it certainly has helped so so many people I know. Yeah. And

when we talked before I told you that as a Christian, that my faith was vital to not only helping me heal, but also to provide that hope you talk about. There's actually a scripture in the bible in First Thessalonians chapter four, verse 13, where the apostle Paul is telling people not to grieve as those who have no hope. And he was referring to the hope of heaven. And I believe that I will see my son Shawn again one day. And that greatly enabled my ability to heal. And with regard to what you said about being angry at God, boy, I think almost everybody who I've interviewed, that's lost, someone has gone through that. And I always say that when something like this happens that we either run to God or we run away from God, and thankfully for me, that's that's where my faith came in. So I'm glad to hear that many of your clients have embraced their faith because I think that does help. So the anniversary of your sister's passing is December 21. And you said before that Christmas and New Year's is really difficult for you. What would you say to someone who's stuck in their grief right now especially in this holiday season?

I think I don't know if everybody would agree with me, but I have a I gave strong advice about canceling the holidays if you need to. Just cancel it you know If you need to stay in bed, if you need to stay at home, if you need to pretend they're on happening, that's okay. Right? If you, you know, need to not see your family or, or not go to that holiday party or say no to the office event or whatever, it is totally fine. You're totally fine. You know, I think there's so much pressure to be jolly to be in the Christmas season, you know, to enjoy and celebrate as if it's a good time for everyone. You know, and I can tell you the first at least five years, I couldn't, I couldn't be happy during the holidays. I absolutely couldn't, you know, it just it was not happening. And I didn't feel like pretending, you know, when I'm eating, why would I pretend that I was happy? You know, when it was right around the time that my sister died? How could I pretend you know, and it felt like it was an insult and dishonouring of her to try to pretend Yeah, you know. And so, I I'm very strongly, you know, I know a lot of people like you don't just go out and try to be happy, you know, try to enjoy, put on a good front, you might enjoy yourself. And listen, if that's what you want to do, go absolutely enjoy, you know, as much as you can enjoy. But I also have a very strong recommendation that it's totally fine to just avoid him, avoid the holidays, let everybody know, you know, be very clear about what's going on for you be very clear about what within reason, right? You don't have to tell them exactly what's happening. But, you know, I'm grieving right now, this is not a good time of the year for me, I'm not going to be around very much, I really appreciate your invitations, or you know that you're having this event, and I'm so sorry, I can't be there, I would show the best and leave it at that, you know, but be very clear, set your boundaries, set your boundaries with your people, you know, the people in your life, let them know, if you're going to be able to make it or not, and why and how many times you will have to have that conversation, you know, having them try to convince you just be like, This is the last time we're talking about this, you know, and, and, you know, set those boundaries, set those expectations and do what you need to take care of yourself. Yeah, and I, I certainly don't want to advocate isolating and avoiding and, you know, not getting support and all that kind of stuff. But that is different than No, I'm not going to be able to celebrate this during this day or during this time of year. And it is hard because it means putting yourself first. And a lot of people struggle with that, you know, myself included, but I I'm a big advocate of doing what you need to do.

So on a I guess a very personal level, how are you feeling this year about celebrating another holiday without Naveen?

You know, it's been this will be the ninth year. And in some ways, it still feels like it's the it's fresh, you know, we're actually taking my daughter on the 21st we're traveling down to to Virginia to stay with my dad, and then my sister and my other sisters gonna come later that afternoon. So I'm really glad that we'll be able to gather, you know, and gather on that day specifically. But I'm also I have a lot of anticipatory grief because my mother has been battling Alzheimer's for a number of years. And the nursing facility basically told us to prepare ourselves. So you know, we don't I don't know if she'll pass before the end of the year. In some ways. I really hope not. In some ways, I do hope because I don't want her to suffer. But I yeah, I anticipate if she does, and it'll make the holidays even harder. So there's, there's a lot of mixed emotions going on right now. And I'm missing my sister and then also missing my mom.

Well, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom. And I'm also glad that she'll be able to gather as a family this year, although I imagine it will still involve a mix of joy and sadness. But I think as we go through these hard things, we learn more, and probably a lot of lessons that you'll be able to pass on to your clients. But I do believe it makes us stronger and gives us wisdom that we can pass along. So on that note, can you share with us the big life lessons that you learned, following the loss of your sister, that might help someone who just lost their sister, or someone else dear to them at this difficult time?

Three things come to mind. One, how you feel today is not how you'll always feel. You know, it's so easy for us to kind of get stuck and immersed in our grief. And we kind of assume that it will never end. But we evolve and change every day. And so it was our grief. You know and so how your grief feels today will not be how it feels next week, next month, next year, and so on. So just have, have hope have faith that it will evolve and change just as you will. The second one perhaps the one that took me the least amount of time to realize, but the most amount of time to actually achieve is to live, like really live. You know, live a life that you care about live a life that you feel satisfied with live a life that you know, leaves a legacy, you know, for your loved ones and makes you proud. You know, make bold choices, don't be scared of what people say or think and, you know, live your life and live it to the most I think is one of the most important things we can do, especially after a loss, you know, is to find that courage to really live. And the last is to is to really love, love the people in your life. Tell them how much you love them, tell them why tell them with the memories of little moments that they may not even remember, you know, things that touch you, that means so much to you know, show them the gratitude and the love and the appreciation that you have for them as much as you can as often as you can, you know, we never know what's going to happen. We never know when someone will be taken from us. And you know, one of the biggest, the worst things to live with is that guilt and regret of not having said, I love you, or I appreciate you, or I miss you, you know, I want you in my life I'm so grateful to have in my life, whatever it is, right? So express how you really feel to the people that mean the most to you. Yeah,

good advice. I've heard so many people say that, you know, looking back that some of the biggest moments were really just the smallest things. And so it's so important just to appreciate all of it I agree. On the stream, Where can those listening go to find more about the work you do? And if they want to get in touch with you? How can they do that.

So the best way is just go to my website, harborlightcoaching.com And is the form on there. There's also a grief assessment. So if somebody's confused about coaching and how it differs from therapy or counseling, and they want to get a better sense of where they are, they can take the assessment totally free. And you know that that'll give them basically their results of letting them know, okay, you're really right for, for counselor at this point, or you should actually see a therapist right now, or coaching is a good option for you, you know, so just to help kind of clarify, because I know there's a lot of confusion about the different modalities, and especially when you're grieving, it's so hard to reach out, it's so hard to find the support, you know, and so I want to make it easy for people so that a lot of free resources on my website. And I'd say that's the best place to go.

That's wonderful. And I'll put a link in the show notes to make it easy to find. Well Nesreen I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your personal story of loss. Your journey to becoming a grief coach, and some of the valuable lessons you learned about grief and loss. It was great having you here.

Thank you, Michelle, thank you very much for having me.

You're welcome. So for those of you listening, if you were able to identify with some of the emotions, Nazarene shared following the loss of her sister, know that you're not alone, and that these feelings are normal and natural to experience. And if you feel stuck in your grief, and are having difficulty moving on with your life due to the sadness and despair, I get it. I truly do. I was at that place at one point too. But the key elements Nazarene spoke of support and hope really can make a difference. Please reach out to a counselor, therapist, grief coach, or pastor for support. qualified people are out there and they want to help. And don't forget to embrace hope. As we've talked about so many times on the podcast. There's purpose in the pain you're going through as hard as it is right now. You can survive with support and hope. And one day you'll be able to help others with the lessons you learned in your loss. Thanks for listening