Losing my parents, processing my grief, and examining my faith

Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified, the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. When loss comes early in life, it's hard to know how to manage the emotions that come, having no point of reference to draw on. And when a young girl loses her mom, her confidant and friend, the loss can have an impact for many years to come. Well, my guest today experienced a loss of her mother at an early age. She put her life on hold for a time to process her grief and to examine what was important in her life. Then she would be forced to revisit her grief upon losing her father and grandmother within a few close years. Her story of resilience, healing, discovery and compassion would be born out of these sorrowful events. But she's developed a new compassion for helping others with her experience and today she's here to share some of it with you. She is a beloved daughter, wife and associate, marriage and family therapist, author, photographer, singer, songwriter and small business owner. Her name is Ceci Frost and it's my honor to have her as my guest on the show today. Welcome to Qualified, Ceci.

Frost. Wow, thank you so much. Thank you for having me

Of course. So let's get into it. You know I mentioned your mom and I know how close you were to her, of course, and she passed away in 2009, and she had cancer. That came and went and at 18 years old, you lost her and her death had a significant impact on you. Talk about the feelings you experienced and how your mom's passing impacted your relationship with your father.

Yeah, thanks for asking that, and it's so hard to pin down, like man, so many things. I was 18. And losing her felt like losing my anchor and my compass and, like you expressed, we were really close. She was my best friend, my mirror, my model, you know everything, and so losing her felt like the air had been just sucked out of me, just gone, and at the same time, it made me at a really young age realize the brevity of life and how it's. Life is so uncertain and anything could happen. No one is exempt and that impacted my perspective and framework and the way I approached things, my motivation and everything. It more set like a fire under me and was like dang, I need to live to the fullest. Like I could die tomorrow. Yeah, it changed everything about my life and me. My parents got married when I was three. They had both been previously married before, so I was three with the new dad and my. He is all I've known as a dad. My biological dad was not in the picture and he already had three kids that were a lot older than me and essentially like late teens and 20s, almost out of the house, and so my parents got married. He's like. I know I have a three year old again and so I say this to just create context of like our relationship. So I grew up that is like my dad, you know, it's all I've known. But in my teen years we had a really challenging dynamic where oftentimes my mom felt in the middle and so my dad and I weren't close emotionally when she died. And when she died it was a very intentional conversation and decision between him and I to make it work, because he was my last parent and I wanted to still. I wanted him in my life still obviously. So, with very intentional choices and conversations, we restored our relationship and I am forever grateful because we became so close, extremely close.

Well, I'm so happy to hear that you had that communication with your dad and that you were able to close that emotional gap between the two of you. That's wonderful. So can you tell us about what happened in 2021 in the middle of COVID when, sadly, he suddenly passed away? How would you describe the grief you felt at this point, now that you've lost both parents?

Yeah, in 2021, I experienced the loss of my remaining parent and I'm parentless by 30. And I just remember I kept saying right after he died was I have no parents. I have no parents like. I have no parents like what? So just some story is in the span of four weeks, my dad was in and out of the hospital about three times during COVID. You know there are very much COVID rules and regulations and no visitors. Nurses, doctors everyone is so maxed out, so tired. They thought my dad had pneumonia and that's what they were looking at and they did multiple tests that compromised his ability to breathe and his health. And so, over the course of four weeks, this is all happening and we're not allowed to visit, we're not allowed to advocate for him in the moment in his room, and it was very, very hard and difficult. And then, two days before he died, suddenly in the middle of the night, he was diagnosed with lung cancer and thankfully, because he was in an ICU, we were allowed to see him. Like one at a time. But I was there with him and I was with my mom as well when both of them passed and I described losing both of them like if I was a boat at sea losing and I had two anchors, you know, that kept me grounded. Losing my mom was like cutting off one anchor. Losing my dad was cutting off the last. And then I'm just kind of floating and wondering, like in this new territory that's, that's how it felt.

Yeah, I can appreciate your description of losing your anchors. That's such a good way to describe loss, that feeling of floating sort of aimlessly for a time or get that. And I'm so sorry, Ceci, about the loss of your parents. So hard. So you said that you were present at the moment when each of them passed. That's pretty tough On one hand maybe a blessing, but on the other pretty traumatic as well. Do you recall anything significant about those moments that you want to share with us?

Yeah, I can absolutely share, and I was diagnosed with PTSD after my dad died. I struggled immensely with my dreams and intrusive thoughts and I witnessed both of their passing, which were so different. My mom had cancer multiple times throughout my life. She was suffering for years on and off and her death was really slow. She got to say a ton of goodbyes. She had a rare opportunity of processing her death as much as you can while you're still suffering. But with that came being a witness to a lot of her pain and a lot of her suffering, seeing her and hearing her and then witnessing my dad and it being sudden, and I witnessed him being resuscitated like four times. And you see things and you hear things that you just can't ignore. They just are ingrained in your mind. And so I say that to give context of my dreams and you can imagine like where they went and they were reoccurring and I would wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night and my heart racing and it affected my sleep and insomnia and I majorly tired and just really struggling with that. I wouldn't. Also, at the same time, I say I wouldn't change. I wouldn't change the fact that I'm glad I was there with them. It was dark and it was painful, but I'm so glad I got to be there as they transitioned from earth to heaven and just like be a witness to their soul. So, then, that's not for everyone, because it does come with a cost, though.

Yeah well, tell me a little bit more about the PTSD diagnosis. What was it that brought you in to see a specialist who made the diagnosis?

Yeah, I had gone on and off to therapy since my mom died, which I highly recommend and encourage, and after my dad died I started going to a trauma therapist. So she specialized more in what I had been experiencing and I was experiencing suicidal ideation and I had never gone through that before After my dad died it was so the pain of thinking about the fact that they won't be here the rest of my life was so heavy that it made it. That is what encouraged me to go in that direction of thoughts and I simmered on it by myself for a little bit. And I say this also to normalize some things, because in grief you might often find that you're like I just I don't want to, I just kind of just wish I wasn't here and unfortunately, sadly, that is common. And it got really scary for me to keep to myself. And finally I ended up telling my husband, who I absolutely trust he's been through so much with me on this great journey. The same day I told him I was gonna see my close friend was coming over, who's a social worker, and I told her as well. And it was probably one of the scariest things to do was tell someone where I was at cause it was really dark and I didn't want to like freak them out, I didn't want to get locked up. But like at the same time I was like kind of scared of myself and didn't know like where I would go with this. And then ended up in more therapy and where we you know, she tested me and for PTSD and we did some other things that were helpful too and they're a little bit of EMDR and kind of clinical skills like that. So that's what really led me to going into more trauma focused therapy for myself.

Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you for your vulnerability and sharing those intimate thoughts, and I believe you're right. It's probably very common for people to feel that way initially, right after the loss of a loved one, and I am super proud of you that you reached out and talked to your husband and to your friend and that, with help, you were able to overcome those feelings. That was definitely the right thing to do and a brave thing as well. So, sadly, after being pounded by the waves of grief following the loss of both of your parents your grandmother, your mother's mom also died around that time. So, as you know, when we face loss upon loss, it's also referred to as cumulative grief and it can really weigh heavy. Tell us about the circumstances around the loss of your grandmother and how it affected you.

So at the same time of my dad getting sick, I was also taking care of my grandma as a power of attorney. So I didn't do physical caregiving for her but I managed like every aspect of her life and moved her closer to me and there was a lot of unfortunate things she was experiencing that I needed to advocate for her and actually go like a legal route on her behalf. She had Parkinson's and dementia and both are just really sad diseases and it's my mom's mom so naturally really triggering and wishing my mom was there, as my grandma slowly is less herself and she doesn't remember my mom and then she doesn't remember me. And that is all going on at the same time of my dad getting sick and then dying. It was a lot at once.

Yeah, so when we talked before, you shared some of the ways that your grief impacted you physically and you talked about what we called somatic issues, and you learned a lot about yourself as a result of going through all of that. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, absolutely so. In therapy we did a body scan and I'll briefly describe that. Basically, I would close my eyes, plant my feet on the ground, I'm sitting down and a therapist really mindfully guides you through, noticing your body from your head to your toes, and it's a very slow, like experience and it made me very aware. It was such a good takeaway that when I think about the passing of my mom and her loss and what that meant and felt like I feel her in my chest, like in my lungs and because she was my heart and also it felt like I got the wind knocked out of me. And then when I think about losing my dad and reflect on him, I could feel that in my legs because if losing him felt like someone pulled the rug out, he provided foundation for me immensely after losing my mom. And so it was really interesting to do that body scan and notice. You know, our body holds so much more than we are aware and can put words to, and so just like taking time and being mindful, like where am I holding this and those are the places that my grief and it lies. And then, after my dad died a more just like somatic symptom I was nauseous. I was nauseous for two weeks. I felt like I was on a boat. I did not throw up, but I was just nauseous and I remember people asking like you need to eat, you need to eat, and I'm like I do not have an appetite. I feel so nauseous and that is so real. Everyone experiences it differently and for me, after my dad's, I was nauseous, of course, lots of fatigue. I'm like not wanting to get out of bed.

Yeah, you know, when you describe the feeling in your legs. I've even heard it talked about. You know, like this sense of not wanting to move forward. You know, because our legs carry us forward in life and it's almost kind of symbolic of you just being stuck where you are, you know.

Absolutely.

That is so very real and I remember going through the same things when my son, Sean, passed away, and it's just yeah, it's very important to be aware of your body and how it can be trapped in there. So thanks for sharing that. You talked about your education. You recently graduated, earning a master's degree in psychology.

Congratulations on that. Thank you, thank you.

So now that you're at this place I mean that took a lot of courage and strength. You have everything that you've been through to then buckle down and pay attention to studies when your brain was probably just everywhere else. What would you say is the most important realization that you've had about grief that you didn't completely understand maybe before? And how has your education contributed to your understanding of loss?

I started grad school one quarter before he died and then when he died I was like, oh well, I am way too familiar with grief, because grief is why I wanted to go to school. Losing my mom is why, 10 years later, I ended up going to school to get a degree in clinical psych to help others in a more clinical realm. And so I was like, okay, I can start school. I'm 10 years out from my mom, I'm super grounded, I got this. I have so much vision, I feel a little more restored. And then my dad dies and I'm like, oh, I don't think I can do this. So how my education helped my understanding of loss. Honestly, there needs to be way more grief classes. So I think my own experience was like the biggest teacher. Being in therapy was another big teacher and then what was a part of school was actually being in an internship and having a supervisor and clients Like. I learned so much more being hands on in the room and witnessing a variety of type of losses, and I learned what people need is different in other people's coping skills and just more about being human and how people grieve and how to be in the room with them and what clinical skills are actually helpful.

When you and I talked before, I shared with you that after my son's passing, I only wanted to talk to another bereaved parent not somebody who had the degree, because I wanted somebody with the experience. So I think that makes a lot of sense, because the two of them combined are actually probably super powerful, but that experience is definitely invaluable. So you said that you heard things from people, and I wanna talk about that, because so many people say well intentioned things after they find out someone's lost a loved one. What are some of the things that people said to you during the grieving process that you didn't find helpful, and what have you since learned? There are better ways to support a griever.

Yeah, unfortunately there are so many silver linings like thrown around that just didn't land well for me, maybe for others. But what wasn't helpful was when people said they're in a better place. They wouldn't want you to cry, they would want you to be happy, they're finally together, and that wasn't helpful. All of those weren't, because essentially just all of them felt dismissive and it felt like I had to put a guard up then and couldn't be my full, authentic, grieving self, Right, right. And it wasn't about I'm not mad about where they're at, I'm just mad where they're not at and right now I won't back. That was the thoughts in my mind when I would hear those.

Right.

I'm sure you've heard some too, oh yeah, and I think you're right.

I mean, we need to be able to grieve in our own way at that time, and so when we hear those kind of platitudes, it doesn't help us in our state of mourning. But what were some things that you could offer that you think would be beneficial?

Yes, yes, some things that are helpful is to be present, just so. Anything anyone is gonna say is not going to take the pain away, it's not gonna bring your person back, it's not gonna change the future. When my mom died, I wasn't married. She wasn't gonna be at my wedding. I still don't have kids, and if I do have kids, I won't have parents. They won't have my grandparents. Grieving is continual right, and you're grieving more than once, so anything someone's gonna say is never gonna take all of that away what helps is just listening.

Do you make a really good point about you grieve more than once. I've never heard anybody quite put it that way, but you're right. I mean it's a lifetime and there's those milestones in our lives that they won't be present for. And then, like you said, about children, I mean I'll never have grandchildren and I think about that all the time as I interact with other people my age who are experiencing that and it kind of triggers that you know loss response all over again.

Absolutely, yes, absolutely. So being present is really key. What that looks like is you don't have to say anything, you could just be, and then you just be okay with awkwardness. I've had friends at times come over and I just like stared at their dog or their kid and we just don't talk. They're early on, you know, in grief, and that's all you need is, I mean, a witness. You know, a lot of pain just needs to be witnessed. And so just being present, not not not worrying about having the right words.

Not trying to fix them.

Yes, yes, yeah. Another thing that's really helpful is mindful, like being mindful of them throughout time, because it's not going away. You know, like you know, you and I, this is our reality. Like you said, you won't have grandkids. If I have kids, they won't have grandparents. So just being mindful of them through throughout, especially the first year. You know, entering the holidays, birthdays, death aversaries I personally, when someone I know loses a loved one, I like I put their, their important dates in my phone just to let them, to remind me, and then I can just be mindful of them during that time. And it helps a lot because sometimes, as time goes on, you're, you know you're you may feel like you're the only one that really is carrying them on or you remember them, and to feel a support system that also expresses oh man, I wish your mom was here. She was just such a good friend. Like, oh man, I miss my friend. You know you can miss your friend and I can miss my mom, and that feels good together. So being mindful and being present and just listening.

Yeah, I love what you said about keeping track of the dates too, because you know, I have a friend that lost her husband more than a year ago and she's entering the second year and I remember for me the second year was worse than the first.

Yes, I agree.

A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people. It's that way because the reality sets in. Okay, I didn't dream this, this is really happening. This is their birthday the second year, yeah, and I remember that and reached out to her and she was happy that she had somebody who could understand that, because I think, by by the time a year has come and gone, people think, well, she should be over it by now and they're not even interacting.

So yeah, very important. Yeah, you're so right on the second year. You're like, oh, this is happening again. And then it sits in that like, oh, this is going to keep happening.

Yeah, it's real. Well, let's talk about the difficult topic of keeping the faith, and I know that you were kind of raised in the church, raised in faith, but that this really does a number on our faith, doesn't it?

Yes, oh man, absolutely so. When, before my mom died, I really wrestled with my faith as she got diagnosed for the second time with cancer wrestled with my faith then I. So, when she died, I actually felt closer to the Lord and ran towards him versus away from him. I was in a really supportive environment and had great mentors and leaders in that time of kind of more faith crisis and thank you for that diamonds impact nine million out of the last two years like that as well. Then, when my dad died, I had so much anger and, to be honest, I'm definitely still so in this season or chapter of examine where I'm asking difficult questions about God's goodness, about God's power, about prayer, and it is not in me to just drift away and just well, I'll just end up where I end up. It is just who I am to. I'm going to figure this out because this is faith is important to me and has been for years, and I want to know what I believe and I'm going to dish this out, you know. So it looks like listening to podcasts, listening to teachers, reading books, having one-on-ones with people I trust that could talk to me about the Bible, about theology, and get really nitty kind of nitty gritty, I guess, for lack of a better word. The last couple years it's been really difficult to just pray, because saying just Dear God and inviting and asking Him for strength or healing in this area, or just talking to Him about something else, is actually triggering, because I've prayed so much for healing for my mom and dad and so I'm just holding this tension of, okay, what does my faith look like after losing both parents, after tons of people praying for them, after them being total believers, and so much faith and love for the Lord, how do I hold that? This is something I cannot ignore and I may not find the answers. I don't know. Like I said, I'm definitely still in a season of examine and at the same time you know, in this wrestling it's ironic, I guess you could say in that wrestle I'm still talking to God, right, but just in a completely different way, and sometimes my prayers just look like Dear God, amen, that's all I have. I am no. Liturgies are really helpful right now, which are just kind of preplanned prayers like from books or the Psalms. So just the Lord's Prayer is something I've been going to.

That's good. Well, I love your honesty and transparency about being in the examination process, because that's definitely a good place to be in. I mean, that's. There's a depth I think, 10 years out for myself in walking through all of this and learning how life works and how God can use these circumstances and we talked a little bit about that before and in my life I've seen it, but it took a while to get there. So I love having this conversation with you because you haven't abandoned the faith. You're examining it and I believe you're going to come through it even stronger, like so many people do. But I think it's a really good place for people listening who might be experiencing what you're experiencing to know that it's normal and natural for even a person of faith to feel that way. Because I think we talked a little bit before about there's a little bit almost of a stigma about grief in the church, because where's your faith? You know it's there in heaven and it's all good, but these emotions are real and we have to process them as they come.

Exactly, and if we don't, it can be dangerous.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you're doing good.

Oh, thank you, Michelle.

So, Ceci, you shared so many great insights about your grief experience and I just want to capture them here because so much of it bears repeating. You told us that the cumulative grief you experienced led you to a place of darkness that you had never experienced before. That even frightened you at times, but you chose to tell your husband and a trusted friend and then sought the help needed to process those emotions and work through the pain. You talked about the somatic issues you felt and how grief can take up residence in our bodies. So it's important to be mindful of the places that our grief can reside and make an effort to recognize and release the tension as it comes. You shared about the benefits of therapy in conjunction with education, and you have a deeper understanding of the nature of grief, having lived through your own losses. You pointed out that sometimes well-meaning people can say things that leave grievers feeling even more misunderstood and isolated, and you encouraged others to best support grievers by being present, by listening and being mindful of dates and milestones as a means of showing support and love. And you talked about the role of faith in the healing process. You openly shared what it looks like for you today and you honestly talked about the tension you hold related to praying to God in grief after praying to God for healing. So much raw and beautiful truth in your words, and I truly appreciate it all. So, Ceci, what other lessons have you learned having been through all of this, c an you share with someone listening who needs hope right now?

Yeah, so good. I've been giving this a lot of thought and it's interesting because I think if you would have asked me a handful of years ago, after I was losing just one parent, my lessons might have been a little different After losing both and my grandma I mean, there's a handful, but one of the lessons is a reminder again of the brevity of life and to just hold it with hands open, and that is my value and framework of how I really live. And I've learned about my capacity and to identify it and to be okay with it and to act on it. What I mean by that is I'm still functioning at such a different level than previously, before my dad died. I'm the type of person that can hop from one social gathering to the other and be so jazzed at the end of the night, and the last couple years are completely opposite. One conversation or saying hi to the cashier at Trader Joe's wiped me out. That was super humbling. Knowing my capacity, being okay with it and allowing myself grace is just a massive lesson I've taken away from all of these losses. I kind of joke, but kind of also mean it that I owe a lot of my grief healing journey to Joanna Gaines for starting the Magnolia Network, because I've been all of her beautiful shows the last couple years and that's what I needed. But in all seriousness, I think that I've learned if you want to end up healthy in the midst of this and there's no end, I'm not going to say at the end of this, but in the midst of this, you want to continue to stay healthy, you're going to go back and forth of taking on your grief head on and you're going to need to escape your grief. It takes both face it and escape it, and that is therapy. And then vinging your favorite show, and it takes both and your brain needs a break, your body needs a break. If you just did one, I don't know how well that would go, but I've learned that you need both and that's okay. Have lots of grace on yourself and that's been so helpful and really humbling and hard at the same time.

That's good advice for me too. I tend to take it all on and not allow that. Joanna Gaines time. I need to do more of that.

Yes, I encourage it. I think it's so necessary. We just need to also know our coping skills. I've learned my coping skills through all of this. Zillow is a coping skill, facebook Marketplace, and there are funny coping skills, but there are serious ones that aren't healthy, and so it's really important to know them and to have a really trusted person around you as well. At the end of all these griefs, these losses, and my schooling and education and my internship at a grief center, and I really believe that everyone grieving needs sustainable support and purpose, no matter what you lost, who you lost, how old you are. Whatever goes to, it seems like, comes to the surface of everyone's needs, and I believe that.

Those are great, great lessons. Well, I'm thrilled to have had this conversation with you. As I said, I do believe you're doing great. I think you have a ton to share already and I would just encourage you, as somebody who, like I said, is 10 years out Keep the faith, keep examining it.

Thank you, michelle.

You'll get even more lessons as you keep going through this journey and maybe you'll come back and share with me again.

Thank you so much for creating a platform for people to listen and learn and feel connected and being so helpful, so helpful.

Thank you, and thank you so much for agreeing to come on and be my guest today. I really appreciate it.

My pleasure.

Such an honor. So for those of you listening, you might be in a similar place right now. You may have heard Ceci's description of her intense grief, the pain in her voice as she shared about her dark thoughts and terrible, somatic responses to her losses. But I also pray that you heard the hope in her voice as she detailed the ways in which she's examining and exploring the faith that she once clung to. Trials and losses and adversity of all sorts can really pull the rug out from underneath us, as Ceci said. But when those dark moments in our lives come, it's okay to just say Dear God, amen, just don't turn away. Being in the season of examination is okay and it may be exactly where God wants you right now. Sometimes, when all is stripped away and we have nowhere else to turn, we discover who God really is and it can truly change the outcome of the rest of our lives. So don't lose hope today, my friend. Open up your heart to examine what you believe today and it's my prayer that you will find the hope you need to carry you through, and then one day you'll be able to help someone else with the lessons you learned in your loss. Thanks for listening.