Pain is temporary and necessary - What I learned through the lens of loss

Transcript

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Well, hey, everybody, and welcome back to Qualified, the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope.

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I'm Michelle Heaton.

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Finding out you're pregnant, going to your first ultrasound appointment, feeling the movement of your child inside you - these are the days a mother will always remember and cherish, and the excitement of bringing a new life into this world is such an overwhelming gift and a privilege and a joy, and the emotions that we experience as soon-to-be moms are so powerful they're even hard to describe.

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So how do you process the words "your pregnancy is not viable, or we don't detect a heartbeat, or your baby is dead?

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Well, my guest today had to hear and process those words not once, but twice over the last several years, when she experienced the loss of two children through miscarriage and stillbirth.

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In addition to being a courageous overcomer, she's also a mental health breakthrough strategist and has been a licensed marriage and family therapist for more than a decade.

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She's the author of the book Grief, loss and the Goodness of God, and she's dedicated herself to helping individuals improve their mental and spiritual health and find their way back to joy and peace after loss.

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Her name is Bridgett Dunbar and it's my pleasure to have her as my guest on the show today.

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Welcome to Qualified Bridgett.

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Thank you so much.

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I am so honored to be here

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Thank you, well, let's get into it.

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As I said, you had to experience the horrific pain of a miscarriage of your first child and then the stillbirth of your second and, as you and I both know, there's no worse words than your child is no longer living.

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Can you tell us about the circumstances surrounding that time in your life and all the emotions that you experienced following both of these traumatic events?

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Yeah, absolutely so.

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You know it's interesting because you know you ask children kind of at a young age like what do you want to be when you grow up?

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And we have all of these grandiose ideas of of being whatever we, we think we can be.

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And I remember from a young age I always wanted to be a mom.

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Like I always said, I want to be a mother.

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Um, I don't know if that's just because I had a really active mother in my life and I just saw it as something really amazing, but either way, when I first got pregnant, I can't really, you know, even explain the emotions that went through me as just the reality hit me I'm going to be a mom.

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And what happened was, you know, I was not expecting anything to come like anything tragic to come from that news and you know, like most people, we aren't.

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And so when I got pregnant the first time, I actually remember my mom went out and bought me a bunch of like pregnancy clothes, like we were just so excited for this baby, right, like any, like anyone would be.

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But what happened was I actually had some cramping, went to my doctor and they kind of did some tests on me, sent me home and I got an email that said you know, expect to expect to miscarry.

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You know, your, your, your pregnancy's not viable, like it was so shocking to me that I really just didn't even know how to wrap my mind around that the first time and so that was my experience I had an early term miscarriage the first time I got pregnant and it really kind of flipped my world around.

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I just was not expecting that or in the way that it was delivered to it was really just hard to understand why that happened or what happened.

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And so, you know, for me fortunately, I did get pregnant shortly thereafter.

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Uh, you know, I know that doesn't always happen with with everyone, but for me I saw it as like this, this wonderful surprise, and and then I carried that child to 35 weeks and I went into preterm labor and went to the hospital and they told me they couldn't find the heartbeat.

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And at the time I had a lot of doctors, nurses, kind of, you know, checking me, telling me different things.

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Oh, you know, sometimes this happens, don't worry about it Until finally one of the nurses had to tell me no, your child is dead.

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Like we can't find the heartbeat means that your child is no longer living and you will be giving birth to a stillborn child, and so at that point I um, I mean my when I say like I just my whole world fell apart.

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It just felt like my whole world fell apart and that unraveled a whole grief journey for me.

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But in that moment it's like you know, when you think the promise is there and that blessing is there.

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Whatever, you know that that excitement the second time, and then for that to happen, it was really, it was really tragic for me to go through.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, thanks for sharing that and again I am so sorry to hear that and I know that news must've, just, like you said, unraveled you, especially at 35 weeks you know so far along and loving your baby already and intimately attaching to him.

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So I'm very sorry, Bridgett, Thank you and you know, I read your book and you laid it out just like that in the book and described that, but then you also got into, I think, what you called the death of your marriage, like in one year later, less than a year later.

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Can you talk about how this kind of secondary loss impacted you and then what realizations you came to at that point in your life?

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Yeah, you know.

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So it's interesting because during that time in my life I actually experienced a lot of losses.

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So you know, I had a family member that had passed away just a month prior to us losing our son at birth.

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Following that, I was working in a church with my husband.

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We were pastors and we couldn't carry on that ministry and so in that we've also kind of lost our job and the community that was there.

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And you know, I had, I had, another family member who got really sick.

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We thought we were going to lose him, and so you know, there was a lot going on, a lot of losses and, to your point, a year after our son had passed, I I lost my marriage as well, and I would say it's the worst feeling to lose your child.

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I mean, there's really no words around that and those who know just know.

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But for me to have lost my marriage and someone that I had bonded with for so long, it felt like I lost my best friend as well, and that was a whole different type of loss that I actually refer to as a living death.

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And so you know, it felt like this person is still alive, but yet they're dead in my life, and so that was a whole different type of grief, honestly, that I wasn't prepared for and I didn't know how to really navigate.

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And so you know, I would say at that point I was already pretty depressed, but I wouldn't even I would say I went into a deep depression after that.

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I really had a hard time functioning, really knowing what life looked like.

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You know, you build kind of your life with, with another or even just with anyone, like you know, even if you're having a child, you build your life with these plans and hopes and dreams and this future that you are seeing, you're working towards, and then when all of that comes crashing down, it really kind of levels out your life to a point where you're you kind of look at life and you just say what, what is life now Like?

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What is, what do I do now?

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How do I, how do I pick myself up and keep going forward?

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Do I mean, like it?

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There's so many kind of uncertainties that we start to process through it.

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At least I didn't, and it and it took me on a self-exploration journey, like I started exploring.

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Well, who am I outside of motherhood?

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Who am I outside of being a wife?

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Who am I outside of being, you know, in church, leadership or in this role or whatever it is Like.

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And so I started really asking myself.

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I kind of went back to the fundamentals of who am I, what do I want, where am I going?

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What does life look like now?

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What do I want out of life?

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And although it was a great place I look back, and that was such a gifted time in my life to be able to ask those questions, at the time, it felt very, I felt very lost, I felt very alone and it took me on a journey of really exploring who am I now at this point?

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Yeah Well, I think that's a good place to be in some respects, and I can relate absolutely to what you said about that.

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It's like you lose a sense of identity in those roles mother, wife, you know and then you have to figure all that out.

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I experienced that as well when I lost my son.

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It's like I'm not a mother anymore, you know.

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And then the depression and anxiety like you talked about, those things are very real and I know a lot of listeners are probably feeling like they can relate to that.

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So I wanted to talk about the things you say in your book that I found really valuable, and it was in chapter 12, where you talk about how our bodies also grieve the losses.

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And you said that you began losing your hair and your hair was coming out.

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You were depressed and you said our bodies know there's been a loss of some great magnitude.

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It's felt in every part of our cellular DNA.

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So can you break that down for us, because I thought that was really good?

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It is cellular, isn't it?

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Yeah, it is.

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You know, what I often say is that your body knows or experiences what you're going through faster than your mind can catch up.

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And you know, I think, that oftentimes we don't give, I guess, enough maybe attention or value to our body, especially when we are going through grief, because our body is experiencing everything that happened, but at a cellular level where you know we can become sick, we can.

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I mean our body, just it responds to what is happening in our life, both mentally, emotionally, environmentally.

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And so I remember losing my hair in great, I mean just like chunks of hair.

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It almost felt not normal and I remember I actually was so concerned at one time, I think I posted a picture on my Facebook or in a group for grieving moms or something.

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I remember reaching out to the social media experts or whatever and saying, is this normal?

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Am I losing it here?

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Like, should I be concerned?

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I started thinking, do I have cancer?

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Like what is going on?

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And to be quite honest, I mean I was so depressed at that time I even thought, well, cancer would be better than this, because I maybe I could just die then, and I know that sounds so morbid, but like I was at a point in my life where that's what I was thinking, and my body, though, was responding to that level of just defeat and despair and, uh, depression, and so, you know, I think that it's really important to also recognize how we're taking care of our body.

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I, I remember there's a time, too, where I actually was angry with my body.

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Like you know, I I've had two losses, two pregnancy losses, and I, when I was so depressed, I couldn't really function.

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I mean, I, I had to take time off work.

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Um, I was unable to just have the energy that I normally have to even eat or do things or get out of the house or whatever, and so I started just kind of getting angry at my body.

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I didn't recognize it right away, but I remember, at one point I almost I really actually realized that I was thinking negative things about my body and towards my body, and just saying hurtful things to myself about my body and how my body failed me, and why can't it just pick itself up and why can't you know I, I just it, whatever it is.

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Whatever the thoughts were at the time, I know they weren't positive, and I think, when I recognized that, I realized, well, I actually have to forgive my body, like I have to release it from just the the amount of stress and accusation that I am putting on it.

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And so you know I I grew to love myself differently when I saw my body also as a part of of my personhood.

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That grieved the losses with me and it wasn't my enemy but it was my friend.

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And you know, I think that when I really had that mind shift, I started to appreciate my body differently and care for it differently and see the different parts of my body and how it changed in pregnancy differently.

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And instead of shaming my body and shaming really myself, I began to love myself and receive myself and embrace myself differently.

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And I think sometimes it's just important to even slow down and recognize how your body is taking hits, just like your emotions and your mind is as well, when you're going through something of such great magnitude.

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Yeah, yeah, I'm glad that we had that conversation Because I, you know, I know a lot of people struggle with anxiety and depression that's kind of surrounding their grief event, whatever the loss was.

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And you know, I personally didn't feel like prior to losing my son that I had that much anxiety and panic.

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But following the loss, all of a sudden, you know things would, would scare me, like you said, do I have cancer?

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All these things I thought I was having a heart attack, you know, because your body's reacting to this, this loss, you know.

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So you said and I was reading where you said those trigger responses that their, their negative thoughts and feelings, trigger responses, are simply grief's way of guiding you toward areas that require further attention for healing, and I thought that was good and I know that you have experience too as a therapist.

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So can you give us some steps that we can use to address those hard things, because obviously they're difficult to begin with, but what might be a step that we could take to do that?

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Yeah Well, you know just to, to give an example of that, for for maybe those who are are not sure or haven't read my book yet to understand what what I'm talking about.

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You know.

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I think that to kind of piggyback off of the fact that our body responds quicker than our mind can catch up to Our mind is meant to protect us in a lot of ways.

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And so when something happens, whether maybe you're in a conversation with someone or you're in a situation where there's a memory that triggers something that was uncomfortable or emotionally really hard for you, we call that a trigger that your body then responds to.

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And so there is a time I'll share a story of when this happened to me.

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When I was pregnant, I actually craved onion rings from Jack in the Box.

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And I mean, now I look back and I'm like, oh, it's so gross, like I don't know how I ate that many onion rings at Jack in the Box, of all places.

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But I remember my husband at the time would wake up in the middle of the night and go get Jack in the box because they were open and they had onion rings.

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You know.

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So it was great, but but you know, that was when I was pregnant after I lost my son.

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I remember we were at home and we had a hard time sleeping.

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You know, I think in grief your sleep just looks so different.

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And so there were times where we were up really late at night and kind of like, all right, well, are we sleeping or not sleeping?

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Like, what are we doing?

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Going on a drive, what is it?

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And so we decided we would go on drive, sometimes at night, just to kind of get out of the house.

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And one night in particular I was in the living room and I could see my husband putting his shoes on and it kind of gave me a flashback of him putting his shoes on when he would get up in the middle of the night and go get me onion rings.

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And it was so quick, it was such a quick moment that my body literally started to panic, like I felt like my heart, I almost felt like I was having a heart attack.

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Like my knees gave out.

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I totally just like fell over.

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I couldn't breathe.

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I just started like I can't even remember, honestly, all of what happened because it felt like just tunnel vision and I really thought I was going to die.

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In that moment I just thought, oh my gosh, my heart stopped remembering how to beat and I don't know how to breathe now, like I just couldn't figure it out.

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And you know, it only lasted I don't even know.

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I mean, of course, you look back, you think you think I was like five minutes or something.

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It's probably not even that long, maybe like a minute or 30 seconds, but in that moment I just it was the first time I had experienced what I would refer to as just a panic attack.

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And you know, there are moments like that where I think maybe they're not that extreme, but they trigger something in us that we either know, or conscious of, or not conscious of, that our body responds to and they can be really, really difficult for us to experience and scary, scary, and and so you know, whatever that looks like I think to your point what can we do about it?

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It really is slowing down the process and becoming aware of what's actually happening behind the curtain, it's actually happening under the surface.

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Oftentimes, we kind of look at some of our symptoms and think, well, this is just what life is and this is what it looks like and and yes, to some degree you know that is what life looks like right now.

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However, the the solution really is behind the trigger.

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It's what's actually triggering this response right now, and let's deal with that, like, let's go to the root of of that.

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And I think one of the steps that just practically that people can take is one first being aware of how's my body responding, because, of course, it's going to tell you first if you're starting to get angry, if you're starting to get anxious, if you're starting to feel whatever.

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It is you know which which tells us what we're feeling.

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And then, obviously, we track that back and figure out okay, well, what's the thought behind this feeling, where's this coming from?

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And really just slowing down the process in that moment.

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It's not always the best place to practice that, but it always is after the fact.

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So for those who are like I can't do that in the moment, that's okay, most of us can't it's actually after the fact, taking time to really figure out what was that reaction about, why did I choose to respond that way, or why did I just react and respond that way?

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And you know, once we become aware, once we let our mind catch up to what's really going on, once we let our mind catch up to what's really going on, we're then able to catch some of those triggers faster the next time and begin to tell our mind oh, this is what's happening, you're safe, you're okay, this isn't a threat, because our mind will naturally want to protect ourself and it will follow very quickly without us recognizing our emotions, our reactions, everything.

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And so, you know, I always just encourage people to find awareness in in your reactions.

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Figure out how am I reacting, how's that affecting me and others?

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And is it, is it working for me?

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And if it's not, then let's figure out where this is coming from so that you can really deal with the root of that.

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Yeah, that's good, and I remember feeling that way too, and one of the tools I used was journaling.

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I remember a therapist had recommended that, and you're right, in the throes of it all, when we're so anxious, it's like, oh my gosh, just feel better, breathe, you know.

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But I was able to kind of go back to my journal later and go, okay, this one didn't kill me, so obviously it's just my body, and then I could look further down and see where it was less and less.

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So yeah, I agree with you 100%.

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Our bodies are.

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It's crazy how intricate and how they respond to grief.

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And it's really good, I think, to talk about it, because when I was going through it I had no idea.

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I really thought every single time I was dying, like you said.

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And then when I started to read more and talk to a therapist, I began to realize this is a normal grief response.

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So that's really good.

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We have to process it To your point.

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I think grief can be so isolating and we don't mean it to be, but we naturally could isolate very easily in our grief, feeling like people don't understand or you don't have even the energy to really talk to people.

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But I think finding outlets to process is so important.

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Journaling was huge for me as well.

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I also processed, even on hikes.

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I loved being outside, so even just getting out of your environment is really important.

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Finding ways to process your grief is huge too.

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Even just doing practical things giving memory to if it's a child that you lost, giving memory to them.

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I know that every year my family we plant sunflowers is one of the most difficult days of the year.

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I want to do something practical that actually brings joy and memory and honor to my son, and so finding things like that, where it just kind of helps you really deal with the loss, as opposed to maybe hiding from it or or sleeping at under under the rug or just not not dealing with it, is it's just important to find ways that work for you to really process those emotions.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I try and do the same thing, and one of the things I think that is amazing is what you're doing with writing the book and helping other people through their grief.

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I hope to do the same thing with the podcast and having you on here today, and so I want to ask you about that Now that you've written this book and you really have dedicated yourself to helping people deal with grief and loss, do you have one particular story or experience that you can share with us about someone that you helped where they really did a radical turnaround in their grief because of working together with you?

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Oh gosh, yeah, I mean there's a lot I'm thinking about.

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You know, it's interesting because I, when I wrote my book, it took me a while, partly because, well, a few different reasons.

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One, you kind of have to go back and relive all of those emotions, which is really difficult, more difficult than I thought it was going to be.

00:24:27.151 --> 00:24:29.334
But two, you know, difficult than I thought it was going to be.

00:24:29.334 --> 00:24:39.224
But two, you know, sometimes I would tell myself, well, this isn't.

00:24:39.224 --> 00:24:41.327
I mean, there's a lot of stories like mine and you know what makes mine so unique.

00:24:41.327 --> 00:24:49.135
Or I kind of would talk myself out of some of the things I would share, even with clients that it's not that grandiose or great.

00:24:49.135 --> 00:25:04.568
But what I found is that when you share your story, your experience, it actually becomes meaningful to people that are going through that, because it normalizes what they're going through.

00:25:04.568 --> 00:25:04.888
One.

00:25:04.888 --> 00:25:10.298
Two, it just validates some of the things that they're feeling, thinking, experiencing.

00:25:10.298 --> 00:25:25.651
And you know, I think even just giving safe space to talk about it, to give permission to people to say this is this is actually something that is accepted to talk about and there's no judgment here.

00:25:25.651 --> 00:25:34.223
It it actually allows people to heal at greater rates than than not having that.

00:25:34.223 --> 00:25:44.807
And you know, even people that have read my book, I've gotten responses from people saying, you know, I just there's so much in there that that really resonated with me, it really brought healing to my heart.

00:25:44.807 --> 00:25:47.192
And I think, just the simple things.

00:25:47.192 --> 00:25:56.955
You don't realize that your simple story matters to people because it opens up something in them, you know, and so so there's a lot of those moments.

00:25:57.257 --> 00:26:06.247
I do remember, specifically a girl telling me that she was suicidal and really just didn't think she could carry on.

00:26:06.247 --> 00:26:18.095
And you know, after talking with me, working with me, she, she, her life completely turned around and she is actually, you know, doing some things.

00:26:18.095 --> 00:26:24.797
She hasn't written a book, but she's doing other things that are really like bringing hope and healing to other people.

00:26:24.797 --> 00:26:30.460
And so seeing where she's at now and where she started, it's like world difference.

00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:43.134
And you know, I just gives me so much hope and encouragement to know that could be someone's story, to go from complete despair to hope and healing, to bringing that, that light to others in the world.

00:26:43.134 --> 00:26:55.208
And so I love when I get to experience people's pain and also see their healing and that totally transforms into hope on the other side.

00:26:55.208 --> 00:27:01.107
And so you know that's one thing that I have seen time and time again, big and small, different cases.

00:27:01.107 --> 00:27:12.238
But yeah, I'm just so grateful that I actually did put my experience on paper and people get to read it and work through it at their own pace.

00:27:13.244 --> 00:27:14.909
Yeah, and you continue to do that.

00:27:14.909 --> 00:27:29.950
I think it's really good that, from a faith perspective we talked before about that that there's actually scripture that says that we're to comfort others with the comfort that we've received from God, and we don't think about that in the moment, we don't think about it in the pain.

00:27:29.950 --> 00:27:36.755
But you're right, our stories help other people and that's really how I believe God intends them to be.

00:27:36.755 --> 00:27:48.855
It's not so that we can just have that pain and check out and isolate and be done, which is easy to want to do, but this is the much better way we can use our pain to help other people.

00:27:48.855 --> 00:28:05.597
So, with that said, I always ask all my guests at the end what are those big life lessons that you learned having been through a miscarriage and a stillbirth, the loss of your marriage and all the other losses that you talked about your church, family, your community?

00:28:05.597 --> 00:28:10.497
What are those big life lessons that you can share that might help someone listening right now who needs hope?

00:28:25.777 --> 00:28:27.798
My identity and just where I'm going.

00:28:27.798 --> 00:28:43.092
And so I think that when you're in it, it can feel really hopeless, helpless, just and, and so we almost kind of lose sight of any sort of future or surrounding of of hope.

00:28:43.092 --> 00:28:58.674
And you know, when I'm talking to those who are are searching for that, I think it's important to remember that pain is temporary and it doesn't have to be permanent unless we choose it to be, but it definitely does not.

00:28:58.674 --> 00:29:15.151
It's not meant to be permanent, and so this is just a step in the journey of evolving and I think that wherever, wherever you find hope is important, but I think that finding it is crucial to living.

00:29:15.751 --> 00:29:31.438
And you know, I remember someone telling me that you know that I will look back on this time of grief and see it as a gift, and I remember thinking like there's no way I'd never, ever want to revisit this season of my life ever again.

00:29:31.597 --> 00:29:45.557
But when I look back at, actually, the most painful times in my life were necessary for me to become who I am today, and I think that if I had slowed down and recognize that this isn't permanent.

00:29:45.557 --> 00:30:06.607
It is necessary for me to just embrace this journey and see it as there's hope for me, there's life for me on the other side, that this is not where my story ends, this is not where my life ends, this is not the end, but there is a tomorrow, and tomorrow will bring about a new hope for the future.

00:30:06.607 --> 00:30:33.508
And so you know I think that's probably one thing that when life is still hard at times and life hits you out of nowhere and there's things that happen I think it's just important to recognize this is this is an opportunity to either press in and grow, or or believe really the the lie that this is where my life ends and that's not where it has to end, because there's so much more to live for.

00:30:34.971 --> 00:30:35.893
Very well said.

00:30:35.893 --> 00:30:36.734
Yeah, and you're right.

00:30:36.734 --> 00:30:44.469
People are watching us too, aren't they, and they want to see how we're going to react, and we can either help them or hurt them with the way that we react to our pain.

00:30:44.469 --> 00:30:48.258
Well, bridget, thank you so much Before I close.

00:30:48.258 --> 00:30:50.733
Was there anything else that I failed to ask you that you want to share?

00:30:51.986 --> 00:30:58.848
You know, I'm currently, right now, giving my book away for free as a free download to anyone who would like.

00:30:58.848 --> 00:31:01.256
You know, just some resources.

00:31:01.256 --> 00:31:06.644
I, you know, I'm really just passionate about helping those who are walking through this and looking for resources.

00:31:06.644 --> 00:31:08.730
So if you go to my website, Bridgett Dunbar.

00:31:08.730 --> 00:31:12.328
com/ grief, you can find that there.

00:31:12.328 --> 00:31:17.271
If you're someone that you know wants to purchase it and have it in hand, it's also available on Amazon.

00:31:17.291 --> 00:31:20.240
So Well, thank you very much for that.

00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:28.950
I did get my copy and I can attest to the fact that it was a very helpful tool, so thank you for putting it together and thank you for coming on the show today and being my guest.

00:31:28.950 --> 00:31:30.833
It was a pleasure meeting you and getting to know you.

00:31:31.314 --> 00:31:32.236
Thank you so much.

00:31:32.236 --> 00:31:33.999
I'm so grateful for being here.

00:31:33.999 --> 00:31:34.559
Thanks.

00:31:36.286 --> 00:31:42.949
So for those of you listening, if you're struggling with a loss like this, know that you're not alone.

00:31:42.949 --> 00:31:49.571
Like Bridgett, I also suffered the loss of a child, and there's nothing like that kind of pain.

00:31:49.571 --> 00:32:02.137
I get it and it helped me in those dark times when I realized that others had been there and had survived, that they continue to live and thrive and help other people.

00:32:02.137 --> 00:32:12.477
And I agree wholeheartedly with what Bridgett said about pain being temporary and also necessary to get to the next level in life.

00:32:12.477 --> 00:32:21.146
And, like Bridgett, if someone told me back then that I should look at my grief as a gift, I'm not sure I would have responded with grace.

00:32:21.146 --> 00:32:35.292
But today, today is a brighter day and tomorrow does bring a new hope for the future, and it's my prayer that you will get through this hard time and emerge stronger.

00:32:35.292 --> 00:32:38.592
I pray that you're encouraged today, my friend.

00:32:38.592 --> 00:32:40.336
Thanks for listening.

Pain is temporary and necessary - What I learned through the lens of loss

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