Solid Foundation – A Mother’s Mission to Save Lives Starts with Her Own

Michelle:  Well, Hey everybody. And welcome back to Qualified - the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Well, if you're new to the show, my guests and I talk about the impact of loss in our lives, how we process the grief of loss and how it changes us forever. I've talked with parents who've lost children suddenly, as well as parents, who've received a terminal diagnosis and ultimately lost their children following a period of great illness.  But today's guest will address a topic that we have not discussed before on the show. It's a hard conversation but one that is critically important to highlight and raise awareness about. And my guest today has gone to great lengths to do just that - sharing her message worldwide through her foundation, speaking engagements, television and podcast interviews, her website, social media, and so much more. And today I'm honored that she took time out to talk with me. Welcome to Qualified LeAnne!

LeAnn:  Oh, thank you. I'm really glad to be here. 

Michelle: Wonderful. Leanne, when we first talked, you told me about your son, Andy, and you said that he was a healthy and happy 16-year-old high school student. You said he was doing well in school and he enjoyed playing baseball. And you said that he just loved life. And then on December 11th, 2012, you received some very tragic news. Can you tell us what happened on that day? 

LeAnn: Yes. It's a day. I'll never forget for the rest of my life. And when I talk about it, you know, I instantly go, I could go right back to that very day. And it's like, it happened yesterday. So, the, like you said, Andy was a very, busy boy, very active, involved in life. And I say he had that Joie de vivre, Love of life. And I just, it was contagious and I loved that about him, but that day, uh, he was at school and, because it was so busy, we talked all the time. We would phone call after school. He had pitching lessons with his coach. He had varsity baseball practice and that day he didn't answer his phone after school. And. You know, Michelle, I've talked about it and wondered what is it in us that, makes our stomach turn when something's so maybe so insignificant for most people, is your kid not answering their phone. But that day that did turn my stomach and scared me and the long and short of it is we can obviously get into more details later, but I arrived home to find first responders at my house and Andy had taken his life.

Michelle: I am so sorry, Leanne. 

LeAnn: Thank you. 

Michelle: Well, what have you come to find out since that day about what may have contributed to Andy’s suicide? 

LeAnn: I would tell you that there were a variety of factors that I certainly didn't see beforehand. And he was my fourth kid. So, it wasn't like I was a new parent first time, you know, going through a teenager, he was the baby. And I had lived through all of the other teenage angst from my other kids and the antics and all the things that they go through. So, I felt like I was a pretty seasoned parent, both of my husband and I did. And Andy was certainly an easy child. He was just happy. His nickname was sunshine. So that really depicted his demeanor and how he approached life and how people saw, how he approached life. And, probably the underlying factor of what led to that day was a prescription drug. And he had started taking a prescription drug about four months before he passed. And, I did not connect the dots when Andy died to that drug, but after the fact, I remember that in the doctor's office, it was a dermatologist and he was being prescribed a prescription drug for his acne. And in going through the information for the drug, I had to sign a waiver and that waiver specifically, it was like a three-page tri-fold type thing. And I had to initial different places. And I remember initialing by a line that said suicide, psychosis and depression or potential side effects. I didn't even hesitate. I initialed and went on because you know, the two thoughts that went through my head. Well, I'm a good parent. I'm really involved in my children's lives. And I would certainly know if there was something happening to my child, and we just are pretty immune to any side effects to drugs. We've been preconditioned. And it just pounded upon us that we don't even think about side-effects anymore. We don't read them. We don't pay attention to them. And we just take our drugs happily. If a doctor prescribes it to us, without thinking.

Michelle: They usually say that the benefits outweigh the risks. 

LeAnn: Right. And, and yet, if you think about that, how silly that is, because the risk still is a person or people. And if that person is your loved one, and that's what we all need to really start to think about is what are we putting in our body and how is it interacting? And especially with the young person and the volatility of their brain, the youth, you know, their brain is not developed and boy's brain is not fully developed until he's 30. So, Andy was just barely halfway there. And that drug, what it does is it affects your clear thinking on your frontal lobe. And so all of the other normal challenges that we might be facing for someone, especially a teenager, that's a drug is having an effect on them. They're not able to process normal challenges. You know, prom, homecoming, breakups, failing grades, all the, all the things that we, you know, kids go through pressures. And then Andy had all of those on top of the drug in a really short period of time. He had a breakup, he was, uh, conflicted with a teacher at school. They were butting heads. It was going to affect his eligibility for baseball. And so, between the breakup and, and then he was bullied by a friend. That and the failing grades, his inability to think clearly it was a momentary reaction to a child's inability to see past now. And, it all came together for him. It was an impossible, there was no other alternative for him. He was just in pain and wanted it to go away. He didn't see hope. 

Michelle: Well, thank you for sharing so openly and honestly, about what happened with Andy. I know it's not easy to recount all those early days when the pain was so fresh and traumatic for you, but I know your heart is to help other people. And, you wrote a book back in 2019 with that purpose in mind, that would capture much of this along with so many other emotions you experienced at that time. And the title is How to Live When You Want to Die. I remember reading a part where you talked about looking in the mirror the same day that Andy left this world and you made a declaration to yourself. What were those words? 

LeAnn:  You know, it was just probably within the first two hours after getting up off the concrete and screaming and yelling, and you go into the bathroom for the first time and you look in the mirror to reconcile that this is happening to you and not something new that someone had just called you about it wasn't a neighbor. It wasn't a friend. It's like, you're looking at. You're not even sure how to process that, but what came out of my mouth, I honestly believe there's no other answer other than a divine response. And I said, I will praise you in the storm because I had been a woman of faith all of my life. And so, I understood that faith is, at least as much, if not more about a decision than an emotion. Praising in the storm that I could always really, I understood that, that, that was important to be able to, to praise, not just in the good times, but in the bad. And so, I, I said that I will praise you in the storm and made that decision. And then I said, the other thing that really was helped move me forward was I'm not the first mom to lose a kid. Yeah. And that helped me to not feel so isolated so alone. So, I felt connected to the suffering of other people. And that was important for me because it's, it's too easy to be, feel isolated and like you're being punished or some terrible things happening to you and nobody else in the world. Nobody wants to be alone and they're suffering. 

Michelle: Right. And to know that they survived it because you don't necessarily think you can in those early days.

LeAnn:   Oh, for sure. And thus, the title of my book. You know, because I did want to die. Which is so odd because you're so it's, it's such an interesting people have often said to me, well, you've already lost a child to suicide. Why would that even enter your mind? Because you could see the devastation from that and the long-term fallout and the horror of it all. Why would you even possibly consider that? Um, that's what I wrote about. 

Michelle:  How did others react to the news of his passing and how did those reactions impact you?

LeAnn: You know, it changed, does, it has changed as time has gone on. So initially it was just such shock and horror from everybody that knew Andy, because if, if you would have interviewed a hundred percent of the people that knew Andy that were surrounded around him, coaches, youth leaders, pastors, other kids, parents, it didn't matter who it was. There would have been no one that would have said that Andy was ever at risk of taking his own life of completing suicide. If we're honest, we can always look around at other people, whether it's an adult or another child, our kids, friends. And we could say that person is at risk and they have identifiable traits or habits or actions, whatever it may be or circumstances in their life that put them at risk. And he didn't have any of those. And so, it rocked and shut. Everybody and my biggest concern. Weirdly just when I was, we were at the neighbor's house, uh, the sheriff wouldn't let us go into our house. Cause that's where Andy took his life., so we were at the neighbor’s house and word got out really quickly. And so, his teammates all showed up, his friends all showed up, parents, coaches. It was just like an unbelievable amount of people within, you know, a moment of crises. And I wanted them to know two things. I wanted them to know that none of them were at fault. None of them held any responsibility for this. I didn't want them to take that home with them. I didn't want them to second guess anything that, any interaction that they might've had, I wanted to free them of that. And I wanted them to know that Andy loved them, that this was not personally. This had nothing to do with them. This was an inner turmoil and I didn’t want them to follow an Andy's footsteps. And I knew that love and getting rid of the fear and the, any kind of blame or shame or guilt would help with that. And so that was my focus. And then as time went on, you know, of course, you're going to find the people. View suicide within the faith-based community for sure that view it as an unforgivable sin. My had pastors, I've had people tell me that, you know, Andy's not in heaven and, and it's just people don't even, they're afraid to even say the word it's such a terrifying word. Right? So, it's changed, it's evolved. But I think the main thing that I've done to manage that is manage it. And that started with me not being in the passenger seat. Waiting to respond to someone else's questions or interrogations or whatever it might be. I just knew that I needed to come right out and say, this is what happened to Andy. Andy died by suicide. And let me tell you what a wonderful kid he was. So, we, we make that quick shift from, yes, this is its suicide. I’m going to take that out of the darkness, out of the closet.  My kid died by suicide and dah, dah, dah. 

Michelle: Right. It's a very deliberate and transparent approach. And, and that's amazing too, that you were able to do that, I think. But I love it that you took control and that you were in the driver's seat because, you avoided, any kind of gossipy, hearsay, you know, that kind of stuff.

LeAnn: And, you know, I give a lot of credit to the principal of his school. At that point in time, when I showed up at the school, I don't know, a week or two weeks after Andy passed, he immediately, opened his arms up. And just said, come into my office, Leanne, what can I do to help you? What can I do that will serve you?  And he opened that school up., he welcomed the discussion of suicide at school. And then he invited me to speak just four months after Andy passed to 3000 kids. Oh, and what I think about that now, because I know the state of mind, I was in four months afterwards, but I think. Ultimately, he knew that my objective was to save lives and that if I could share what I have had learned and share a positive life affirming message through this tragedy, that we might make a difference because the statistics say that it's very common to have another suicide right after the fact in the same school. So, I'm sure he was very concerned about. 

Michelle: Right. And the wounds are so raw. It was perfect timing. You told me before that instead of using words like death or passing, or even loss that you've chosen to say that Andy moved and I thought that was interesting. Can you talk about that? 

LeAnn: Yeah. I really liked that because that is a, it's a shift, which is what we have to do in our thought process. So. Uh, I would play kind of mind games with myself. If you want to say that, I would think about if my kid had gone off to college, he would have moved on. He wouldn't have been in my home. He wouldn't have been in my physical presence in that sense. Yes, we would have had communication over the phone or this or that. And I would have been able to, to continue following his life, but this is a shift and I will get to, again, I will get to be a part of his life and, his and our lives will be intertwined as I believe they still are now in a spiritual sense. But.   Moved as a much softer approach, which is what I wanted to feel. And I knew that I had to, if I wanted to feel it, I had to envision it. I had to say it and I had to reinforce. I like moved. I think it's a, it's a good word. Yeah. 

Michelle:  Yeah. Lost, implies that you don't know where they are and we know where they are. 

LeAnn:  Absolutely. 

Michelle:  Okay, so this is a big deal. You've started a foundation four months after Andy's move called the Andy Hull Sunshine Foundation. And the primary purpose would be to raise awareness and prevent suicide with an approach called you matter. And I have to tell you, I checked out your website and Facebook page and clicked on some of the video links.  I saw you testify before government officials to get laws changed. I saw you being interviewed on news channels and speaking before large audiences and an effort to make people understand the gravity of this problem. And I learned that your foundation has a three-pronged approach to suicide awareness that includes. Presentations, a reading program for young children and even a camp to emphasize to young people that they matter. What are some of the successes that you've had since starting this great foundation?

LeAnn:  I can't tell you that. I absolutely knew what we wanted to do when we first started. So, the initial year was we were going to do. Scholarships. And we actually did it that very first year. It was super-fast because we had a fundraiser and we raised $10,000 on Andy's birthday, which had just, happened April 10th and $10,000. And we're like, oh shoot, we do this right. And so I went to the school, said, let's do 10, $1,000 scholarship. And not make it tied to academics. And we had the kids write essays on why they, why you matter as perceived by yourself, your family, your classmates, whoever it is, you know, put some thought into this. And how do you take that? You matter message and carry it forward. As you go on to college, I was fortunate enough to establish a board. We had 26 members to start with huge board, which helped because I was having a lot of input because I wasn't thinking real clearly yet myself. I knew that I wanted to do some things, but I didn't know what that looked like. And so, we formed a committee, we read these essays that were so amazing from these kids. And then we, we delivered 10, $1,000 scholarships. Those kids have gone on. I read, you know, I continued to be interviewed by some of them in college talking about, um, that I know one right now, a young woman, she's got her master's degree in psychology and she says, you know, it's because of what happened to Andy, that this is the path I chose and.So, these kids took that message because we weren't afraid to talk about suicide and they carried it forward with them all over the United States to the different universities that they all went to. It was fascinating to me to see that once we took away the fear, it allowed them to be fearless.  One of the most powerful things we do in the foundation is we deliver new matter wristbands. And they're free for anybody. And they're free to one, you know, one wrist band versus like this summer, we got a request for a whole school district in New York, 18,000 wristbands. So, and we shipped them without repay for the shipping as nothing doesn't cost them anything. And all they have to do is go online, fill out, tell us why and who you're going to use it for.And we ship them to you. But some of the ones that I really love, I got a message from. Uh, mom, who said that her son had been on Daytona beach in spring break and that he had received a, you matter wristband. Okay. I live in Arizona, somebody. It was in Daytona beach and handed a wristband out to this kid on the beach.And she said, my son has worn that wristband every day since he was given it. And it just broke. Can I please have one more for my son? It would mean a lot to him. And I just find that interesting how one wristband could mean much. Yeah. 

Michelle:  Besides the foundation, what are some other ways that you attempt to shed light on suicide awareness? 

LeAnn:  I do a lot of Facetime Lives. I do a lot of videos, YouTube videos, and I take the opportunity to always deliver a message with every time, every time I'm on Facebook. And it's a message. The sharing a particular little vignette or a story, something that's real that I might be in experiencing., I'm getting ready to move right now. And so that that's difficult., it's challenging. And how do we deal with that? And, what are some of the coping tools that I'm using? So, I try to share my life with others by sharing the difficulties and how I'm going to move forward. I've done a lot of videos where it’s very emotional people get to see the real, the real pain, the angst, and I've tried to be real. So that's important to me. I, I work with a lot of, new parents. Who've experienced loss and try to offer them hope. The YouTube videos are very interesting, because you never know. Who is watching or listening? I had one mom who messaged me. This was several years ago and she said, I just watched your YouTube video. She was clear across on the other side of the world. I just watched your YouTube video. My son also died by suicide and you're the only that video is the only reason I'm still here? And I instantly responded back to her. She and I become friends now. And so. That took a lot of courage for her to reach out and share that. 

Michelle:  I always feel like, you know, we're never going to know a hundred percent the impact and sometimes people don't know at all, but it's worth it for one.I know that sounds kind of cliche, but when I first started the podcast, I just kept saying, you know, Sean's death cannot be in vain, something good must come of this. And I just wanted the idea of loss and grief. It was so hard for me struggling with it. I wanted to be able to help someone and just like you, I'm seeing downloads all over the world.I don't often get feedback periodically I'll get an email like you did, but I think it's difficult for people to go online and state the way they feel. It's such an emotional topic, but when you do, and you know, that you've helped when it propels me forward, you know, to keep going. 

LeAnn:  For sure. And there's no, no doubt that what the same thing, what you do is so important because we need a variety of messaging in order to review whatever we're experiencing .And I need. YouTube videos. I needed books. I needed personal meat, all different. And you never know who needs what at any given time. So, we're just adding our little bit out there into the world for whomever might need it at whatever given moment. And it sustains your messages, your, your, podcast will obviously live on for however long. Isn't that? That's amazing. 

Michelle:  Yeah. Yeah. I love that.  So, it's been 10 years since Andy moved to heaven.  And you've remained determined to help other people. And we know that in doing so, it helps with our own healing, but just two years ago, you add another major loss. Your husband of 40 years also left this world. And you said that his passing triggered a lot of the past pain that you experienced with Andy, which we know is referred to as secondary loss. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

LeAnn:  So, for anybody that's had a loss. It doesn't have to be losing a child, could be a divorce. When you experience another trauma, somehow it connects you to the original one and it becomes. Bigger ball. It's like rolling a snowball down the hill. It starts small. And then you're, you're adding to it as it goes down. And that's how it has felt with my husband. The last, my husband, it'll be two years coming up here May 24th.So it hasn't been very long and it did take me right back when Clay passed that day, when he moved to hang out with Andy, instantly, they were connected and the pain, the trauma, and I was reliving everything that I'd gone through with Andy and I found out a little disturbing, well, I found it a lot disturbing because I knew how hard I had worked to get to where I was now , to move forward and to process all that pain and grief to, to really feel like. And for some, this'll be startling, but I do feel like I'm free of it. Yes, of course there are triggers and there are times when it's, it's more challenging, but I, I'm not, I'm not held captive by it anymore. And I was instantly back there again. And so, I thought, oh Mike, do I have the energy to do this again? How can I do that? But then on the other hand, I also had the promise that I understood that I had done the work and I had moved through that. So, there was hope. So, it was both despair and hope because it was exhausting. And yet I knew I couldn't stay where I was at., losing my husband. I was. Well, I know I did tell my friends, we joked about .Other, other moms that I'm friends with, we would casually joke about the fact that there was no would be nothing harder than losing our child, that we kind of poo-pooed other people who'd lost their spouses. We were like, whatever, come back and have a conversation with me when you've lost your child, because there's nothing like this. And then losing Clay was earth shattering. And I still believe two years later, that for me, it's been harder than losing Andy. Uh, it's the loss of my life partner versus with a child, you do expect them to move on with their lives, to go and get married or whatever, have careers, families, and they're going to be detached from you, but you have this person that you've spent your you plan on spending your whole life. Yeah. And he was there when Andy passed, he was the person that understands the love of all of our children and, and the, the pain of losing one. And, and now who do I talk to? Who's there for me. It's very, very alone without him. 

Michelle:  So, what would you offer in terms of comfort to someone who's struggling with that?

LeAnn:  Do the work start right in, because it's the work that will, you know, this, the work shifts where you're at., It's not going to relieve the, the immediate pain and loss and grief and hole. It's just not, but the work, I think that the work actually allows your brain time to begin to rewire and heal. I've always had the gift of sleep from the very first night that Andy pap passed, I could sleep. And I think that gives your brain a repressed., from the pain and helps you to heal faster. And I think that's why I didn't want to do any kind of, um, antidepressants or alcohol, because I certainly knew that I needed to feel everything that I was feeling and go through this whole journey of allowing my body to convulse to go through all the chemical changes and to rework itself out, not, not to cover, but to rework and find new ways to be to exist. And, if you focus on helping others, your pain never seems unbearable. Yeah, I would, that's what I would tell someone going through. Uh, you know, and it's not, I lost my mom. I'm an only child with only one parent all my life. And so, my mom passed in between Andy and Clay. My mom past three years after Andy. My husband passed two years ago and then my son-in-law just passed on December 22nd. So, it's been boom, boom, boom, boom. And then my boys struggled with their marriages after the loss of Andy.And their wives divorced them tenure marriages. So, I lost two beautiful daughters-in-law who we’re part of my family. It's been a tremendous amount of loss trauma. So, I had done a lot of work in advance. Like you haven't been faith-based. So, I had that foundation to fall upon. Yeah. Instead of it being something that's shaky.  

Michelle:  So, Leanne, you've shared so many great lessons throughout this journey. You impressed upon us. The importance of being more aware about what we put into our bodies and what we allow into our kids' bodies and how it can adversely affect them. You said your immediate response to your son's death was to praise God in the midst of the storm. And you had the realization that you were not the first mom to lose a child. So, you knew you are not alone in your pain. You encouraged parents to get in the driver's seat and be intentional about the messaging related to suicide to take away the stigma and the fear.And you demonstrated to us that turning grief into action not only helps other people, but it helps us in the grieving process. You talked about how even the language we choose to use surrounding the loss can impact our thought patterns. And you designed the way that you would talk about Andy's departure from this world in a more positive way. And finally, you shared how secondary loss can have such a profound impact, but one that can further ignite our passions and our mission to help going forward. What other thoughts do you have that might help someone listening that may have lost a loved one to suicide?

LeAnn:  I would say in a more general sense. Life lesson, not just specific to someone who's lost a child or lost someone to suicide, but a life lesson that I feel came directly after really after Andy, it was, and I it'll sound a little cliche, but the total appreciation and value of life. So, a loss can either connect you and hold you in that captive of grief and sorrow and loss. For me, it was life affirming to treasure and cherish each and every relationship and every day. So, I saw things that were more vivid and different. I look at the world differently. I process the world differently. I make decisions rather than emotions. I choose my words. I choose my actions. I'm very deliberate and intentional about my mental health process and my day. And I focus on love. I don't always succeed. So don't give up if you fail and are a real jerk one day, because you can try again tomorrow. I think the, probably one of the most important things for me is to not ask why things are happening to. To not be the victim of my circumstances, but to be the Victor. So yes, these things may be happening to you to me. And I have a choice on how I respond. Yes, that's. Been critical in my shifting from where so many, many people stay after a loss to where I feel like I am an overcomer.

Michelle:  And, you know, you know, as well as I do with grief, but it's not something that ever completely goes away. But that choice, like you said, is so important. Choose how you're going to manage your grief and live your life going forward. And for me, and I'm sure for you, I think it honors Sean and Andy's deaths that we move forward with strength and, and helping others.

LeAnn:  Yeah. I want people to see my kid in me. So, I look forward to what our boys have in store for us going forward. 

 Michelle:  I just really believe, that people are put in our path for a reason and that our kids, are really happy that we're using the pain to help other people. 

LeAnn:   I do so believe that that, and I, without a doubt, our boys have collaborated to sitting up there clapping, you know, saying, look at our moms.I love that. I love that image.

Michelle:   I do too. I do too. Well, it was a pleasure having you here on the show, Leanne, a good conversation and a very important one.

LeAnn:  Yeah, it was such an honor to talk to you.

Michelle:  Same here.  So, for those of you listening, Leanne, and I both want to encourage you, that you can survive the storm that you're going through. You may not think so right now, but you will get stronger and likely an you'll be able to help someone else as you began to heal from your pain.So, check out the links in the show notes for the Andy Hull Sunshine Foundation to learn more. And as always, I appreciate your feedback. So, feel free to leave a comment on my website, callmequalified.com. There you can listen to all the other inspiring episodes with more overcomers like Leanne.

Thanks for listening