The Emotional Toll of Losing a Spouse

Michelle: Well, hey everybody and welcome back to Qualified - the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. So, if you're a regular listener, you know, we talk about loss and how it comes in many forms.

Some of my guests have shared their stories of overcoming addiction, depression, illness, relationship, and family issues, and the losses that naturally result from that kind of trauma. But most frequently, I've interviewed guests about overcoming the loss of a loved one, a friend, a brother, a grandchild, a parent, and a child. But my guest today will talk about his experience following the loss of his partner and best friend, his wife Gay. Welcome to Qualified, Bob. 

 Bob: Thank you. It's good to be here. Good to see you. Thanks 

 Michelle: Bob, your wife was diagnosed with cancer and when her condition began to severely decline, you admitted her to a special facility where she could be cared for in her final days. Then shortly thereafter, you received a call that she stopped breathing. And by the time you arrived at her bedside, she was already gone. Bob, you said that you had no idea of the depth of emotional pain that losing Gay would have on you until you found yourself in the midst of it. Can you describe what you meant by that? And what steps did you take to ease that pain? 

 Bob: That's it so longs story. However, let me take you from the beginning. She was in a facility that we felt she was improving and getting better. She was, not looking terrible. She was very pretty woman and she looked great. So, I had seen her two days earlier. It was a three-hour drive, to the facility and, came back and actually was out to dinner with my two of my kids of my four. And I got a call that she had stopped breathing, which was a total shock because, I just had no idea. So, I went down to the facility and I, I got there about two in the morning and then drove back here. And, that was on a Saturday. And so of course, when you're in shock and losing somebody, you are really in shock. You don't know what to do, legally or physically, or you just, you really don't know what to do with yourself. So, I planned, a couple of days later to have, a party or a celebration of life as they call it at my house, which was exactly one week later. I don't remember it. 

  Michelle: Yeah, I get that. Yeah. 

 Bob: Anyway, in that weeks’ time, I prepared, with family help, CDs. And so, there were 300 people at my house and, it said bigger property, so it could hold the people. And large blown-up pictures in all the TVs had CDs going of her life pictures. And I remember a little of it it's it's surprising.  So that week was kind of like, I don't, even though I was active in it, we had a box at the front door for people to write notes about that. And then we made books out of that and gave it to family members of what everybody thought of her.So, it wasn't the traditional, funeral., she would have never wanted that, but the one thing I realized when I did go down and see her lying in bed was that the spirit had left the body and, the body was just kind of. You know, the beauty of her was gone and the beauty of her was in the kids. And, that, that hit me instantly. It just like this body is of no value anymore. And this person is gone to a better place.  So over the next month, I'm a contractor. And, I had jobs going and that I I'm the owner, so I can kind of do my own time, but it was really back and forth to, go between jobs and then get out and take a deep breath and go in and talk to people. But it wasn't until a month later that I, I just woke up one day and I had terrible anxiety.  It was something I'm strong physically and I'm strong mentally., my wife was too, something I totally didn't expect was just hitting rock bottom and it took a toll on me physically. You know, I didn't, I was never hungry for the next like six months. I was never hungry. I forced myself to eat., but I was still working and I knew I had four kids and, I had to, be the strong one, you know, quote unquote. And, the, the physical toll that took, I lost a bunch of weight.

Yeah. But I wasn't like laid out. I have friends and I have associates. You change, but I didn't know what was wrong. And the thing that I fought was the ability that I couldn't beat this.

So, you know, I go to the doctor and they say, take antidepressants. And I tried that one day and it made it worse than I said, forget it, I'm going to beat this. And I, I realized that you need to, like over time that, I was going to beat this by myself, that I was really shocked at what a physical and mental toll it was taking on me. And I, I couldn't believe that, I, I had never felt that way before in my life, and I never felt like helpless, but I could put on a good face in front of clients. And so, I kept my business going. 

 Michelle: there's no way to prepare for something like this.

 Bob: Yeah, you're in an unchartered territory and, all the good friends that I have and everybody trying to help after a while during the six months that it wasn't so much help anymore. I’d get angry., I felt I needed to speak with somebody that didn't know my, my wife or myself, because we have lived here a long time and we're pretty well known in the community and all the pats on the backs, then you'll get over this. I was, it was actually, like I said, making me angry a bit. I didn't want to be angry at my friends of course, but you just say they didn't understand what it was. And so, I found a therapist, I went through online and I found somebody, you know, 15 miles away that I could go, just spill my guts to, which I did a couple of times. So, it felt good to talk to somebody that didn't know me or my wife, or have any, you know, pre-formed opinions about., what could have happened. And, the thing that was infuriating me too, was somebody asking, how did she die? And so, my answer would be, what can you do with that? 

 Michelle: Yeah, let's talk about that for a second because I know what you mean, but let's, let's share with people why that bothers us.

 Bob:  Well, like I said, I'm a strong person and I don't put up with a lot of stuff. And after the first couple of times, we really don't know what she died of. It was it; she was just sick. And so, after explaining our religious beliefs and our thoughts of her treatment and everything, the easiest answer for me was just to say cancer to make them shut up. Right. And that made them shut up. Yeah. But the thing that they wanted to know, and that I, I said to a few people, because they caught me at a bad time. I said, well, what, what are you going to do with that information? Just what, how can you, you know, just think of another way. 

Michelle:  And they don't Bob. I mean, I had, somebody asked me at work one day, did you get the autopsy results back? I think I told you that, you know, and it's like, how is that appropriate? But I think people just don't understand.

 Bob:  Yeah. It's, it's very much, unchartered territory and I came to find out that, maybe three trips to the therapist. And at the end of my third visit, she pulled out five or six pages from, you know, psychology, whatever she does. And it turns out I was a textbook case that you can go for a month and then they have a graph and you drop off a cliff to rock bottom. And then it's a very slow incline up that depending on the length of your relationship and the love that you had and it, but it, it does happen. It's just, you can't feel it because you're, you know, your body from the time you wake up till the time you go to this. I mean for six months; I couldn't wait for the sun to go down and go to sleep. And I was working all day. And as soon as I woke up in the morning, the first five or 10 seconds that you're awake, you not really realizing what's going on. And then like 10 seconds later, and the whole spinning starts. And, you go back into this world that you don't want to be in. Right. So, what the paperwork said was, there's a faint light at the end of the tunnel and, you'll get better. It's just hard to realize it at first. So, it's very difficult the first few months, to realize that, and you're still leading a life, which I was doing fine, and nobody really knew that I was hurting. Like I was, I did a real good job. 

 Michelle:  Yeah, at some point, I think you said that you helped the therapist by giving her insight. 

 Bob:  Yeah, actually, actually I did. I told her a couple of things, this was when I ran into her after I kind of got out of this., so there were two things., one thing was, during it, I was telling her about how your body is so resilient that you, your mind in your body fixes itself, even though it wants to fight you and tell you, that, that you're hurting. But in reality, your body's trying to fix itself. And my analogy to her was if you scrape yourself and you cut yourself and you have a scab, you think nothing of it. And three days later, the scab goes away and you'd have skin there. Well, you think about that realistically? Like how does that, how does that really happen? You didn't do anything to it. It just did it. And the same thing can happen mentally. Yeah. It's just, you have the, you know, the one guy on your shoulder telling you that you'd need to hurt, but your body is really wanting to fix itself. You can talk yourself into, how you feel. It's the same thing. Mentally. If you go into a meeting and you go, I'm going to knock them dead. This time I'm going to I'm well prepared. I'm going into this meeting. Well prepared, then you're on your game. And that's what your mind can do for you.Your body and healing, physical things, physical scrapes, scabs, so in mind, it's a big, big power play and people that do go to the hospital that do have issues, you know, medical doctors, where they even say, that their thoughts and their attitude about it will help dramatically.

 Michelle: So, in those early days, I felt like I couldn't swallow anything. And, you brought me a juicer. Do you remember that? And my friends were bringing me soup because every time I would try and swallow a gulp of food, it felt like there was something stuck in my throat.  And then later as I started talking to more bereaved parents and therapists, I learned that there is. a stress response that's known as the Globus response.  Have you ever watched a movie? That's really sad., sometimes you get a lump in your throat. Sure.   And so that lump is not really in your throat, but you feel a sensation .   So, your body had a physical reaction to a mental event. And so, the therapist explained to me that when the sad movies over. The lump goes away in your throat. But when you lost your child, there was no remedy that I could see. And that's why I continued to have that for a while, but it was completely mine driven. 

 Bob: I couldn't finish a plate of food to save my life. And I forced myself to eat that could granola bar till they just, I couldn't even finish it. And, not, not a glass of beer, not a glass of wine for six months., and just didn't want it., during the six-month period.  I didn't smile.  I'm always smiling and laughing. I mean, you know that from me, once I did, it was funny to me because my face kind of hurt slips. I was able to smile. It felt like my face was like cracking once I really laughed at something. Cause I didn't laugh for a long period. And I'm, I'm not that kind of a person I’m, calm and you know, one thing I felt was I didn't want to, I didn't want to mask anything through any means, but I knew my body needed feel and I, I had to get different belts to hold up my pants. So I was, I walked a lot and the walking helped But, I did run into a client of mine on the walking path and, I think it was probably at the lowest point in my face was drawn, you know, kind of, like when you see somebody that's ill and she. She just looked at me and so she goes, I liked the other Bob better. And she tapped my cheeks 

 Michelle: and you're saying the other Bob has gone. 

 Bob: I didn't know where the other Bob was. Yeah, it was, Bob was not doing good, but walking helped talking to the therapist for the few times helped. And, having the sun go down. So, I knew another day was over and maybe, it would be better the next day helped.

  Michelle: You and gay had a really deep love for one another and losing her radically changed your life. What was the biggest change that you were forced to adapt to after Gaye passed away?

 Bob: Boy, that's a tough one., obviously when you lose your partner and you lose your day-to-day interaction that you have, it's an adjustment.  I think that's what affects you first. The thing that I think he realized after a while of healing is that, you just got on another road, so, your life is still worth living and. You can do good for somebody. The fact that you had loved somebody for so long, you see their love and other people that, you know, in your kids, you see their effect. So, they're kind of still around, but the biggest effect, it's if you take your top 10 things that you like, and you put them in order, you know, like going out to dinner movies or whatever, you just jumble those up and you throw them down like dice in there, just in a different order. So, you would, you know, you just would like different things in a different order. And then you, your body makes you adjust., to your surroundings. I mean, that's the resiliency of your body that, I mean, think of guys that are like prisoners of war or something like that that are in there for two years or, or somebody incarcerated, they come out and they're their harm from it, but they're, they're still alive and, that’s, a body, a mental strength. So, there's no magic pill to take. You have to face it, drugs might be good for some, they weren't for me because I realized after a while that he needed to face this at one point or another and as painful as it is, just do it. It's a lot easier for me to say that now, because it's been 12 and a half years. But that's why I'm here because.  If somebody would have told me all this stuff, then I may not have made a lot of sense, but I mean, it does now. I have had friends with losses since, and, I've told them a few things and counseled some people. 

 Michelle:  I know when we talked before, I told you that it was the same with me. There were people that recommended medication. And like you said, for some people, they absolutely need to do that. And for me, I chose to white knuckle it. And I remember talking to a therapist one time about how hard it is when we go there emotionally again and, I said, I hate that when I get sucked back in to it. And she said, the only way out is through.  

 Bob: It's a good line. Yeah. Yeah. That's a real good line. Yeah, you know, you sleep on your side of the bed and, there's certain smells and certain things that you never had before. There’s even like foods that you didn't like that you, like, I mean, you're, you're changed. So, it, somebody jumbled your, your whole brain and, and it just rolled it out and it didn't make you helpless. It just made you different. And it’s for a reason, I think, to make you, appreciate life and appreciate the life that you had. And as tragic as a loss could be, there's no reason to give up. 

 Michelle:   You talked about something that you decided to do that would end up being the key to your healing. Can you talk about the list that you taped to your mirror, why you did it and how it helped you? 

 Bob: So, I found a book that my wife had written, towards the end of her life. And it had in it like 15 things that she was grateful for.  I was tired of, six months of what I figured was little progress And so I made a list of what I was happy about and the list is I made it in five minutes. I wrote it down at scribbled at, but I know what it all says and it's still on my mirror and I didn’t. Got it. I did it 12 years ago and it's still on my mirror, but, its things, you know, thankful for my wife and my kids. And, but it's also things like colors and trees and oceans. And I just thought of everything that I could be happy about in a short period of time. I wrote it down and I just did it one night. The next day, I felt like a million times better at, it was a real turning point after, every day kind of spiraling downwards in me waiting till the sun went down. And so, I could be tired enough to go to sleep., so that list is still up. I still read it.It's still important. And, I have recommended that to a few people. I know that had loss and I am not sure. What they did with it, a report back. I think it would be very private. Yeah. 

 Michelle: That it really is amazing how that helped you

 Bob: Yeah. But it could be something different for somebody else. You know, somebody's got a plant that they like and planted it in their front yard or, or did something, that they felt good about. It's not a specific thing, but there comes a point for everybody. That's like a turning point. And then you realize that you have been healing. You just didn't really feel it. But, the level of grade was up here and it's not, you jump out. No, I'm better. All of a sudden, it's that you look back and you realize that you have been healing and there is that light is stronger. 

 Michelle:  A good measure might be like milestones or holidays, because sometimes those are hard to get through. So maybe from one year to the next, they were easier. 

  Bob:  The holidays to me, wearing as severe as they are for some people. However, there was one, we got married on December 6th and there was one, December six, then it was a Saturday or Sunday. I was just sitting home and, you know, watching football or something. And, you know, it was fine. There's several years after. And, it was like four 30 and then somebody called me. And just say, we're thinking about you all day today. And I had, I had made it clear that I hadn't even, I hadn't thought about it much. It didn't affect me at all. I was just, it was just a normal day and it just, just by them saying that. It tore me up a little bit. And I said, oh God, what happened?  

 Michelle:  So, is that the wrong thing for them? 

 Bob:  No, no, no, of course not. It's just that the highest and the lowest, the grieving is for the rest of your life. And you need to know that   the, expanse of time in between events, in, the severity of how you feel there are what it does to you changes dramatically that it's not as bad, but it, it never goes away. So, you're never going to be rid of it. You just deal with it better in the severity, changes dramatically.You could be, upset by a reminder of something for a minute. And then two minutes later you could be totally out of it. And moving on, I know that you know that. Okay. Yeah. 

 Michelle:   So, that's why I asked about the milestones because, you know, we just had Sean's birthday, but I do remember when we first moved in here, when you put up Christmas lights, I remember you had a heart in Christmas lights on the roof of your house, didn’t say we love you, mom. 

 Bob: Um, it said, it said, mom, that was a red heart. It's about 10 feet big in it just said, “Mom” 

 Michelle:  whose idea was that? 

 Bob:   Just to, you know, let people know that we're thinking about our Christmas, so She was a very strong woman and she’d be mad if I did. She didn't need catering to, and all that. The kids loved that. And I put it up for two or three years, I think. And I still have it Kimmy wants it, for her house, she would put it up every year, so I have four children. They have all taken this differently in terms of, their grief and there, association with her and, the love and the time they spent all of them by their mother, when they're in their twenties. And, I apologize to them that, all you got is me now. But so, I felt badly for them more than me that they lost their mother. I think I dealt with the fact, that she had passed better than they did because of their age and, they just don't have their mother going forward.

I think I accepted it easier, than they did, but because of their ages and their different relationship with their mother, they all four have different opinions about this. You could interview all four of them and you would get four different stories., 

 Michelle: I just think, you're a sensitive individual and you, you were feeling bad for them. I've talked to mothers that I interviewed, a grandmother, so her grandchild died and she explained that what was so painful for her was not only missing the baby, missing her little six-year-old granddaughter, but watching her son and his wife grieve that was like double pain for her.

 Bob: Well, my four kids are all strong in their own ways, but. You would get four different stories out of them. And I, I really did feel for a minute. I'd felt at times, God, I'm all they got. You know, there’s other family members, but, immediate family, I got finished raising these kids, even though they're in their twenties and wow.

 Michelle:  You did a good job keeping the family together, didn’t you? 

 Bob: well, you know, they have their moments., I'm lucky., there was no trouble with, with them. They're all four different people. They took this for differently and they would challenge her treatment. A couple of them, I challenged her treatment, just all the reasons and there. They have some built up anger about a loss, you know, what could have been what might've been. Yeah. Yeah, my dad died a year later and her mom and dad died a year after that. So, there was a lot of that consecutive losses. And, what I've told to my kids is you better stay connected with any cousins you got. Because, we're not going to be around or, or next in line to. So, your guys are the family, you know, I'm next one leaving the building.

 Michelle:   we won't go there .  Several of the other people I've interviewed have said that gratitude was key to helping them recover.

 Bob:  I think I saw it on a church marquee one time it said maintain the attitude of gratitude. It's amazing. That's the mind part. So, the scab part where your skin can fix yourself, and the mind part where I could write a list like that and have such a profound effect on me by the next morning I woke up, I was so much better. And then I realized that I had actually made significant progress and I just needed to kind of get my head, maybe moving in the right direction or, or something. But it was, it was remarkable. And, I still have all this. 

Michelle:  That's great. That's great to hear. We both know that when we lose someone close to us, that people want to help and, in their efforts, to do so, sometimes their comments are actually less than helpful. Can you talk a little bit about that and offer any helpful information for those who want to support a griever more effectively? 

 Bob:  Grievers can only connect with another griever and, nobody else can ever tell you or counsel you.  It doesn't make sense to anybody until you've been there, you know, in the deepest hollows of this. So, when you have friends that came up in and said, he'll move on or you'll feel remarry, or you'll do this, and you really want to smack them like bad, but they're your friends and, you know, they're trying to help. So, you have to refrain. Yeah., you have to really watch that part of it. My brother-in-law, I guess a brother wife, 60 years old, a week and a half ago had a heart attack and just died, right in front of him at breakfast, just boom. And they, were retired., she was 60 years old., they had each other and lived a very kind of recluse life. I mean, we'd, we'd see him at Christmas baby, I think the road for him will be extremely tough because they, she had a child before they're married. So, there's one child who lives out of state. But they, their whole lives where each other and, they really didn't have friends and didn't come to a lot of family events. So, some, somebody like that will have a different trial. And, then I went through and that you went through. So, everybody says it's so different. And so personal. So, the first thing I did was I waited a day and then I texted him and I said, I'm so sorry for your loss. And, a few other words. And then, I, in another paragraph I said, I might be able to help you, when you're ready. And so, the. The thing to do would be not to rush down and go, hey, you know, your sister died. Remember that, and I can help you. It's just everybody in their own time that, so he sent back, a nice note and he goes, I will call you and I'll let you know.

And I know that he will. So when, when somebody wants to talk about that, I, I have been able to talk to people, and told them much the same of what we spoke about. And when I came to your house, and, the smile you get, it's when you, when you tell them, you can go ahead and smack the people that say their thing too, because that is so, you know, they're helping and you know, that, that they're thinking about you, but the whole point of this is you. You got to live this to understand. 

 Michelle:  Yeah. And I think if another way to look at it is that there was actually good. That came from it. You know, it's, it's harsh when you think about it, because how could it be good, but the fact that you're helping somebody else I think is just so it's just incredible when we help people like that.

 Bob:  There's, there's, there's three or four people that I've just said little things too. And, one of them, her husband died last July, I believe. And, she's been thankful., she knows all about wanting to smack people now., and she's, she's improving and, she's actually progressing more than she knows. I can see it because I can see where she's at. She, she can't, and she's very emotional anyway. 

 Michelle:  So how often do you check in with her?

 Bob:  you know, we talk occasionally a couple of times a week. And, she's, she's actually a client that I've done the family for years for 22 years. And so, her husband was a terrific guy and, terribly missed. So, she's active and has several friends. And so, after I told her that about the friends and, trying to help, she was one of the ones that a week later said, boy, you are so right. You know? 

 Michelle:  And with your brother-in-law when you said that, you know, he, he said later I will contact you whatever it's is probably for the best anyway, because it's like in the initial stages, like you not remembering a lot of gays Memorial, I think in those early months, days and months, people wouldn't have remembered the good advice that you might've had anyway, because we're kind of in a, in an altered state.

 Bob:  I think its good word is numb. And, I was definitely numb, 

 Michelle:   so, we talked about the different emotions related to losing a spouse and those related to losing an only child like me. So, I've heard it said that you can replace a spouse, so to speak, but you can't always replace a child. What are your thoughts about that, Bob? 

 Bob:  Well, in your case, I know it was tough.  I have four children who would, that would be tragic and, grief is related to how much time and interaction you had and how much love there was.  Some people that are alone, and have a dog that dies go through grief. So, grief is it's different for everybody, but it's all related to the love. So, it's different for everybody., in my case, I had a great marriage and, we dated in high school first at 16 and 15, and she died at 56. So., it would be a different road. It would just be with total respect for what I had. I am really glad that I had loved somebody about my life. So, I'm very thankful for that. If I ever were to do that again, it probably wouldn't surprise me, but it doesn't matter that I need to, but it's a personal thing., at this age, getting married as, like the financial, you're not going to get married and buy a house and have kids. But it was, it was hard to date somebody, in the beginning. And, I had, a number of friends that set me up that, I think they were really setting their friends up for the them.Yeah. So that’s a little rough and, I have a client that his wife died of cancer right around the same time in the same age as mine did his lives locally. And, he was living with somebody within a year, that's his choice, they actually had a good marriage and all that, but he just felt the need for a wife, I guess. And, I haven't felt that need, but, 

 Michelle:  it just, it just goes to show everyone's different.  So, Bob, we met several years ago when my husband and I moved into your neighborhood. I remember that day vividly because we were unloading boxes from trucks and I couldn't help, but notice all the cars lining the street. And then another neighbor told us that your wife had passed. And that today was the celebration of her life at your home. And then a few years later, my son, Sean passed away and you were one of the first people to rush over to our house with food and hugs and support. You knew what to do and what to say. Cause like you said, grievers know how to support grievers. And I know that you're still doing it today. You're still helping other people because of the experience and what you went through. So, with that said, that brings me to the last question. What are those profound lessons that you learned from losing Gay that you can share with someone listening who may have just lost their spouse?

 Bob:   life is worth living, your loss would never be looking down at you and wants you to be anything other than happy. And there's a reason and we'll find out that reason, when we pass, but the life, life lessons is there's the faintest light at the end of the tunnel, then it'll, it'll get brighter., the recovery is there. There's not a day that goes by that. I don't think about it. So . The other, the other thing I wanted to share is, that, you just really kind of go down a different path, you know? So, your life is worth living., you will heal, it will come at different speeds for different people. Be patient, you'd probably want to smack me, you know, if you are grieving because it's really difficult, but it it's something that you have to, believe that your loved one wouldn’t dare think of you, doing something drastic or, to just live your life, and the reflection of them and everybody that, you know, and that they knew, and that they touched. So, four kids and four grandkids that she never said. But I can see in all of them, like characteristics or hers. So, she's, she's still around. Yeah. 

 Michelle:  Well, you know, Bob, and one of the previous episodes, I told someone that in those very early days, a family friend called me and., his son died in Marine Corps, boot camp.  During, basic training.. And I remember I said, how long has it been for you? And he said, eight years. And, I go eight years. And I just remember thinking, there's no way I could do this for eight years. And that was key, I think, because it was the eight-year mark, that's where I am now. So that's the message is that they can do it. They don't think they can now, but they can. 

 Bob:  Yeah. Well for you, at this point and, and for me, it's not. So much a healing thing for us to talk about it because we've spoke about it for years, both of us, but for somebody else, that's experiencing it, to let them know, that it takes time. And in a lot of cases in that everybody's just a little bit different 

Michelle:  and it helps to hear it from another griever.

 Bob:  Grievers are in a special club, you only get in the club one way., it’s, it's a tough road. It's a long road, but you just have to believe that things will get better.   What you're doing is a remarkable thing to do after your loss. It's, it's incredible that you can reach out to people and help so many. So, I came here not to spill my guts and, to do anything for me, because it's been some time it's been 12 and a half years, a little more, but if somebody is experiencing something like I've spoken about that, maybe it'll help somebody. 

Michelle:  That’s the goal.  Bob, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your story about Gay, your kids and your life after loss.

Bob:  Well, thank you for having me

Michelle:  So, for those of you listening who may have lost your spouse, my heart goes out to you today.  Maybe you could relate to what Bob shared in the early stages and are struggling with loss of appetite, inability to sleep and anxiety.  But I hope you were encouraged by the outcome of his journey and his message of hope and finding gratitude in the circumstances.  

Grief changes us for sure.  We will never be the same, but like Bob said, we just have to travel a new path now and surround ourselves with compassionate people who understand how we feel.  And remember that one day you will you be able to help someone else with the valuable lessons you have learned in your loss.

Thanks for listening.